Congrats to the co-op for making its move, on time, to the big new space across Cortelyou.
It's a lot more spacious, with a wider selection, and one neighbor recommends the sandwiches.
Natural Frontier's still got them beat on that all-important organic milk price, though.
Other first impressions?
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Very pretty....but $19.76 for a small chicken is a jaw dropper!
prices are high so I really can't imagine how they will stay around in this economy... Though the place looks great it surprises me that they managed to make the space smaller.
$5 for soup & $6.99/lb for salad makes a very expensive lunch...
Join the coop and get discounts maybe?
The salad bar is no higher than Fairway. The soup is on the mark compared to other cafes and gourmet supermarkets.
It's not Met Food, people. It's not trying to be. If you don't like the prices, just don't shop there. You don't have to criticize it. They are not price gauging considering their niche market. They are right on target.
I for one, can't afford to do all my shopping there. I'll go to Met for basics, and the Coop for specialty items. And I'm thrilled to have that choice right here in the neighborhood.
Times are tough for a lot of people, but we don't all go around whinging that every new store should cater to our financial situation. I for one, will shop in a 99 cent store, but don't really think we need half a dozen of them. I'd rather have a variety of businesses serving a variety of demographics.
There is an article in the Times about the rising prices of organic foods titled, "Sticker Shock in the Organic Ailses".
Seems it's not just FFC that has to deal with organic food prices rising.
wow.. I think this is an open forum where folks can complain if they want to.. Just because there is a vendor here doesnt mean we have to blindly accept whatever prices they decide to force on us...
I, for one, would have preferred a regular supermarket instead of another organic one...
in principle, i would love to support the food coop, but their prices are indeed astronomically high on everything, and that is in comparison to identical items at natural frontier and met foods. i once saw maple syrup there for $15 and for only $9 at natural frontier. my brown cow and stonyfield yogurts are 20-30 cents cheaper at natural frontier... they serve the same niche market, so why the big price difference?
i too divvy up what i buy from met v. organic shops, but i'm gonna keep walking the extra blocks to natural frontier until the coop makes some price adjustments. the 2% discount for non-working members just won't make a big enough difference for me and with my travel schedule, i can't take on a shift (also pretty small discounts even for that!).
i'm happy the coop is around, but i can't be a regular customer... kinda sad.
It's not that open a forum, 10:42. Ben and Liena delete comments where they see fit. So careful what you "allege" about FCC>
Why can't the FFC have prices like the Park Slope Food Coop? I don't have a problem performing a once a month shift and the prices are vastly cheaper?
FFC attracts a lot of customers who drive here from outside the immediate area, so I imagine they may still do alright even with the crazy prices.
They also have an impressively wide delivery catchment area.
The FFC is an entirely different animal in practice and mission from the PSFC. It is similar to many other Food Coops throughout the country. PSFC is more unusual. Just accept FFC for what it is, or start your own coop on the PSFC model if that's what you want.
How do the prices at the new Flatbush Food Coop compare with prices at the C-Town on Coney Island Avenue, the other C-Town by Newkirk Plaza and the Key Food on Foster?
How about quality?
Most of the goods in food stores are commodity products. Hence, price is the only consideration.
Is Fresh Direct getting much business in the area?
The Park Slope Food Coop is a mystery when viewed in comparison with WalMart.
The PSFC claims to have 13,000 members who pay the lowest prices in Brooklyn for food.
Shoppers/members are able to offer low prices because only a couple of people are actually paid to work at the PSFC. Except for a manager or two, all other labor is supplied by volunteers.
In other words, by its existence the PSFC keeps lots of supermarket workers from earning a paycheck.
How many paychecks are eliminated by the donated labor of the PSFC members?
What is the value of that donated labor? The best estimate is the difference in prices between PSFC and a nearby supermarket multiplied by 13,000 members.
But WalMart offers LOW prices AND paychecks. Thus, support for an organization that pays NOTHING while eliminating jobs is mystifying.
Of all the arguments against the PSFC, I think the jobs one is kind of strange. Especially when you bring WalMart into the picture.
WalMart jobs pay pathetic salaries with terrible benefits. Though I make no claim to ever having a "hard life" by any stretch of the imagination, I have some experience with trying to make ends meet with a near minimum wage job and no insurance. It's pretty stressful... and I don't even have children. At one point I realized that it would be better for me financially to have NO job, because then I would qualify for a whole mess of gov't benefits that my $200 a week was actually too much for (full disclosure, this was not in NYC, so I'm not sure how much the aid works here, but it was NY state, and I can't imagine it's much different). I have trouble grasping why people who think WalMart would be good for New York because of the jobs it provides ignore how much it actually costs to live - here or anywhere- vs how much WalMart pays.
The truth is, if you had a job at WalMart the PSFC would still be a godsend because it would mean that you might actually be able to afford to eat decent produce and eggs that are healthy. The kind of food that is offered both at the PSFC and the FFC is not just a matter of taste and social/environmental responsibility , but actually a whole lot better for your long term health and quality of life.
Coming back to the FFC, it would be so nice if it was cheaper. I've seen the same food for better prices at a lot of places, and I'm sure there's a whole bunch of reasons for that so I don't hold it against the FFC personally... but one can dream. AND I think it is important to talk about wishing they were cheaper, because it helps build a community opinion which is powerful and has the potential to bring about change.
It's not just that FFC's ought to lower their prices- they NEED to do it in this neighborhood to succeed.
I shop there almost every day and noticed in the move they hiked prices on a lot of stuff-- and are leaving price tags off a lot of merchandise probably to avoid gasps of shock -this is a bad business move.
Fairway had it right - a lot of fantastic deals were out when they opened to get customers hooked - price then went up somewhat, but not outrageously.
It was a shame (and somewhat scary) seeing the same meat on opening day on the shelves a week later at FFC.
I loved this local co-op, and I really hope they haven't overextened themselves with this move.
I don't think 7:14 and 7:32 were criticizing the coop. They seem to be legitimate observations. I would join if they raised the discount from the 8% it is now, but as it stands now I will rarely shop there.
snosnoski, people who work at the Park Slope Food Coop are able to meet their daily living expenses with income from other sources.
While they give their labor freely to the Coop, they are "paid" by savings at the cash register. Thus, there is a financial reward for their time. Frankly, the compensation could be extremely high for those members with families who rely heavily on food from the PSFC. The savings probably reach a big number when allocated over the number of hours each member works at the Coop.
Meanwhile, like I said, people who are paid well enough to give their time to the PSFC create two problems for Brooklyn.
First, those "volunteers" take jobs that would exist at a supermarket if the PSFC did not exist. The 13,000 members of the PSFC would shop somewhere -- and pay more -- if the Coop did not exist.
Second, all those low-paid people you mentioned CANNOT shop at the PSFC unless they become members. Thus, the PSFC is an exclusive organization
The PSFC kills jobs and permits only members to walk in the door. Nice.
WalMart, on the other hand, CREATES jobs AND hopes to serve every shopper who wants LOW prices and reasonable quality.
As for WalMart's pay scale, don't make me laugh. There are literally hundreds of thousands of illegal workers in NYC working for LESS than minimum wage and no benefits while they keep an eye out for the INS.
In any case, if WalMart wages were too low, no one would take the jobs the company offers. Strangely, every new WalMart is beseiged by job-seekers, just as IKEA has been, and the Red Hook Fairway, Lowes, Target, Home Depot and every other employer.
As competition for workers increases, wages will rise. That's one reason there are very few jobs in NYC that actually pay minimum wage -- unless you are an illegal alien stocking shelves in a convenience store. Then you get less than minimum wage.
1) WalMart Sucks.
2) Most illegal aliens aren't working in grocery stores; they're working in food services where they can be paid "under the table". They are earning usually cash which goes further than the minimum wage at such places like WalMart where they'd take a large chunk and they would have to be documented. It's pointless to compare Walmart minimum wage with what illegal aliens earn doing other things.
3) If you want WalMart and their cheap goods, go to Ohio.
4) FCC is ok for some things. But I'll continue to use the Asian delis, Target, and Trader Joe's to get more reasonable prices. FCC for me is for the heavy things I don't want to carry and emergency items. I'm not going to be buying $16/lb organic shiitake.
How often do members of the PSFC have to work a shift? Isn't it something like once a month? Most people, of any income level, could swing one shift a month, if getting reasonably priced organic produce was that important to them. As for the assertion that PSFC takes away jobs...huh?!? In Park Slope alone there are plenty of supermarkets (Met Food, Key Food, C-Town and independent ones) that employ tons of workers. Do you really think that the number of jobs at PSFC is remotely significant enough to impact the borough-wide employment situation for cashiers, stockpersons etc.?!? Not likely. As for Wal-Mart, although the largest employer in the U.S., they may be the worst; their chronic anti-worker, union-busting activity may bring us right back to where we were 100 years ago. In fact, as I wandered through FFC today and almost fainted from the prices, I realized the only kinds of solutions that can work in today's world for those of us not bourgeouis enough to afford Whole Foods-style pricing, and yet who want to "tread lightly" and avoid "frankenfoods", is to take steps toward greater self-sufficiency; in light of that, a PSFC-style coop is a great idea; maybe that could takeover FFC's old space ;-)
I've been complaining about the FFC coop before it was was cool to complain about them. The $7. oj just made me run in the other direction. But I have to say with the new store, a lot of energy and effort has gone into the new location and I'm genuinely impressed. I still think you can't just grab anything you want. You really have to sticker shop otherwise you'll put an 18 dollar chicken into your cart and blow the weekly budget but shouldn't we be doing that anyway. I say hooray for an innovative business on Cortelyou even though it doesn't satisfy my every desire.
anon 3:34,
The work performed without pay by volunteers at the Park Slope Food Coop is work that would go to paid workers if the PSFC were another profit-making enterprise in the neighborhood. Obviously ONE Coop does not change the overall supermarket employment in Brooklyn.
But your complaints about WalMart is multiplied to the max when workers are paid ZERO.
The PSFC is a good example of how people can work together for a common benefit. There's not much difference between the PSFC and people who paint their own houses or fix their own cars. But there's no question the existence of the PSFC means there are a few less supermarket jobs in Brooklyn. It takes a lot of labor to operate a shopping venue with 13,000 customers.
13,000 volunteers working one 7-hour shift per month equals 568 40-hour (full-time) jobs.
I haven't been participating in this discussion, but it got my attention so I pulled out my calculator.
A friend who recently joined PSFC reports:
$6 for Ice Cream at FFC with no discount
$5.56 at FFC with discount
$3.56 at PSFC
I buy only incidentals at FFC and Natural Frontier, I am glad they are here, but after 18 yrs of membership, I am sticking to PSFC.
Target, you said:
"While they give their labor freely to the Coop, they are "paid" by savings at the cash register."
"But your complaints about WalMart is multiplied to the max when workers are paid ZERO."
I do feel I get paid in savings by working at the PSFC. It's like somebody gave me a very part time job for extremely good pay. I don't have a price by price comparison on had but I'm guessing that with a whole chicken being $11 at PSFC and $18 at FFC, a dozen eggs being under $3 at PSFC and over $4 at FFC, and a quart of half and half being $1.60 at PSFC and almost $4 at FFC that my savings (earnings) are substantial.
"13,000 volunteers working one 7-hour shift per month equals 568 40-hour (full-time) jobs. "
The work requirement is 2.75 hours every four weeks.
snosnoski corrects math whiz, but his numbers would give us 223 full-time jobs that the PSFC's system takes away from the community. i think we can safely say it benefits those with flexible time requirements for their jobs and child-raising responsibilities. price-wise, it potentially helps middle class folks afford items they otherwise wouldn't, while costing 223 low-income workers a job. but who knows? we need more data. it would be interesting to do a survey of the annual income of PSFC members, and see what groups of people really benefit.
snosnoski said, "The kind of food that is offered both at the PSFC and the FFC is not just a matter of taste and social/environmental responsibility , but actually a whole lot better for your long term health and quality of life."
BULLSHIT! A bunch of hype put out there by hippie tree-huggers.
There is no proof whatsoever that you will live a longer better life if you eat organic.
However, if you don't shop organic and take the savings and put it in a bank you will be able to take a trip to somewhere very nice thus directly and undoubtedly improving your quality of life.
Orangic food is for the neurotic and the rich.
I just want to point out that people of all income levels shop at the PSFC. Many, many members come from outside Park Slope. It accepts EBT and provides free child care for members shopping or working their shifts. Of course you need *some* flexibility and free time, but lots of people of varying income levels make it work.
Natural Frontier os the reason FFC bought the Associated. The Met had been trying to buy the Associated for years. Natural Frontier posed a threat to FFC so FCC figured that bigger was better. What they didn't figure wa sthat perhaps lowering their prices would be more beneficial then spending thousands of $$$ on remodelling the Associated and now having to charge even more $$$.
Personally, I would have liked to see a non-organic food store or a remodelled Associated.
FFC is out of touch with it's neighborhood. Anyone that can afford the $20 chicken has a car and can drive to Fairway.
This thread is more proof to me that Ditmas Park is turning into Park Slope. This is the kind of ridiculous argument that belongs on a Park Slop blog!
And for what it is worth, the new Flatbush Food Coop is a huge improvement over the old space, not everything there is overpriced, and if people think it is too expensive then they don't have to shop there.
It's true, we need a lot more data. We need to know what kind business could fill that space (I'm guessing it wouldn't be a WalMart since the space is actually rather small) and whether a business that would fill the space would realistically employ 223 full time workers.
Since the PSFC fills a rather specific niche (ultra cheap organic and local food) we also need a way to evaluate if the business that could potentially take over that space could fill that niche while employing 223 full time workers. If not, what would the affect of another kind of business (one more likely to employ a large number of workers) be on other jobs and businesses in the community.
In addition to income, I'd also like to know what percentage of the PSFCs members work full time or over full time, as well a statistics relating to the average age of their children.
I'd also like to know how much the average PSFC member spends per household member on a "weekly shop" and compare that to the spending of someone shopping at a more conventional natural food store as well as someone buying more conventional (non-organic eggs, Kellogg cornflakes, what have you) items at a conventional market. I'd be interested in this number both as an actual dollar amount and as a percentage of income.
As for health and quality of life, I've read more proof that eating organic eggs is healthier and gives ones vital nutrients without raising one cholesterol than I have to the contrary. But I'm sure that contrary data exists and I just haven't read it. So I guess we'd have to go get some more data on that too.
So the argument dies here for me, because INDEED we need a lot more data.
I was so excited about FFC's new store. I don't know why, maybe because of what I read on this blog, but I was expecting lower prices and bigger selection. Needless to say, I was pretty disappointed when I checked it out this weekend. The prices were through the roof and that was only on the few items that had price tags on them. It's pretty slimy that they leave the tags off of so many products. Do they think they're tricking us?
I will definitely continue to walk the extra blocks to Natural Frontier.
I will say, however, that the store looks wonderful and the people at the checkout counter were MUCH friendlier than at Natural Frontier (where I've only been rung up one time by someone NOT talking on her cell phone).
And just a gross aside, as I was checking out the salad bar, I saw a 5 or 6 year old girl re-arranging every piece of lettuce (with her bare hands). Her mom saw that I saw and promptly scolded the child, but still, nothing was said to the store employees. I know this doesn't reflect at all on the store, but I just thought you might want to know why your salad tasted a little weird this weekend.
What was on that girl's hands that would make a salad taste weird? Do you think that doesn't happen pretty much everywhere?
If you saw the child touch the salad why didn't you tell the staff? Anyway...
Why can't the FFC sell both organic and regular items? They would be picking up some of the slack for the inadequate Met and the longer existing Associated. The space seems big enough to accomodate both. This way they would increase their customer base. As it stands now even with Frontier Market and the FFC I still have to drive to Fairway and Shoprite for everyday stuff.
As far as I could tell, the new and improved FFC does now sell some "regular" (non-organic) products. There is certainly a much better selection now, including some pretty nice bread and a deli counter.
They also have a better and bigger selection of meat than they did before with reasonable prices considering the quality.
Shoprite? Try the Pathmark at 2nd Ave and 13th st. Hop on the Prospect Expressway to Hamilton Ave. Take the first right and presto! You are there! Faster than walking to C Town!
And it's usually empty and it has great prices (like $6.99 for a big tub of Organic greens 4 X the size FFC sells for $4.99!)
snosnoski is correct. While there is no cash compensation for working at the Park Slope Food Coop, the members enjoy huge savings on food -- as examples of items at the PSFC and other venues show.
In other words, members of the PSFC barter their labor for low prices.
Most likely the IRS grants an exemption for this form of exchange. But maybe not. Generally, however, the IRS demands a share of the benefits received in a barter transaction. Do shoppers pay taxes on the compensation they get in the form of low prices? Not too likely.
Any way you cut it, the PSFC reduces supermarket employment in the borough, even if by only a handful of jobs.
It means nothing that the PSFC takes EBT payments. Why would it not? Those payments are guaranteed. Better still, the taxpayers get a good deal. The EBT-funded shopper is making the tax-payers' dollar go much farther than it goes at the convenience stores that also accept them.
Meanwhile, the impact of the PSFC on the local economy is not affected by the income of the shoppers.
Here's to hoping the Flatbush Food Co-op lives up to the "co-op" concept, which implies low prices or exceptionally good values. However, based on the price talk here, the opposite is happening. The FFC has taken the opportunity to raise prices because it moved from one cramped location to a more spacious one.
Smart business operators often bring people into retail values by offering a "loss leader."
In food circles, a favorite is milk. Milk at my convenince store is $4.49 a gallon. The best price I've found near me is $3.49 at Eastern Foods on Coney Island Avenue near Avenue I.
I thought that the incredible downfalls of Walmart were fairly obvious, but maybe watch the documentary- Walmart: The High Cost of Low Price.
Anyway, people with no legal status cannot get jobs at Walmart or any chain grocery store.
Walmart and the PSFC do not offer the same items, so the comparison is lost on me.
(and to whomever spoke about there being no benefit behind organics, not only are there clear environmental benefits that improve our health, there are also studied harms of eating hormone/antibiotic laced foods... only looking at whether an organic lettuce is more nutritious than a conventionally grown lettuce is too myopic in scope to understand the benefits that organic growing practices give to the world.)
Visited the FFC yesterday for the first time and concur with most here that if the prices aren't lowered I will definitely not be returning. Example: Applegate Farms sliced turkey is $8.99/lb @ Fairway and it's $11.99/lb @ FFC. Same with coffee - Italian Roast is $5.99/lb at Fairway and $8.99/lb @ FFC and $6.99/lb at the salad bar - uber outrageous.
BTW, the shoprite on McDonald & Ave I is as about suburban an experience to have in Bklyn. Tyson now produced hormone-free chicken and much less than FFC and Fairway.
Does the Flatbush Food Coop distribute flyers showing "sale" items and "specials"?
Is the store working to pull in shoppers? Or does it appear that management has a Field of Dreams vision, believing if the doors are open their job is done?
who doesn't wash their lettuce anyway before they eat it?
Am off to to C-Town for soda, milk, TP and 'rican coffee, then to Golden for vegies.
Can only afford FFC's bulk products and granola.
I was very excited about the new space for the food co-op; their old space was so small and crowded, it was genuinely unpleasant to shop there. But now that the new store is open, I don't think I'll be going there very frequently. Natural Frontier is right around the corner for me, and their prices, while more expensive than C-Town, aren't horrible considering the quality of the food.
One thing that is great about the new co-op, though, is the meat selection: ground turkey, buffalo, and ostrich. It ain't cheap, but man is it good every once in a while.
11:02 AM -- the poster said a child was playing with the salad bar lettuce; Lettuce that is supposed to be used in a salad and eaten as is; I don't think anyone expects to wash lettuce found on a salad bar! Shame on the parent!
I just went to Natural Frontier (it's closer to me anyways, even tho FCC is on the way). Their prices have been slashed a lot, and I find them better than FCC. Same granola is 2.79 rather than 2.99, a liter of Poland Spring seltzer is 99c vs. 1.50 at FCC, for example. I took an inventory of their prices overall, and they're MUCH more competitive. I know this is in response to FCC, and maybe it won't stay, but I find the price difference worth shopping there for however long they stay cheaper. It's always been pleasant to go there as well. Competition is good.
Target:
If the money of the PSFC members evaporated perhaps you'd have a point. However, they take those savings and spend it somewhere else.
A place like Fairway may be employing some locals (at what wages?)but it is a net drain on local income as Fairway shareholders skim the profits. The PSFC keeps that money local: I'm inclined to believe that someone who is engaged with their community enough to volunteer each month is also going to be a strong supporter of the mom and pop businesses on 7th Avenue. I don't have that same faith in Fairway shoppers.
(All of this is said as someone who has never stepped foot into PSFC and who has no interest in stocking groceries in exchange for food.)
I thought that half of the point in buying organic food is that it's more sustainable for the environment than non-organic. What's the point of driving to Fairway, spending money on gas (and increasing your carbon footprint) to save $5 on your weekly grocery bill, if that? I like having two organic groceries nearby, and if I'm broke one week I can always walk to C Town.
C-Town or any common supermarket is not that cheap. Actually, the food bill will be comparable to my food bill at PFSC, but the quality I get is WAY better.
My neighbors across the way pack the car every weekned and shuffle off to Fairway. It has snob appeal. Incidentally, the same folks never talk to any of their neighbors, you never see them shop or have their child play locally. I guess this is a type for our times.
As for the fool who said organic is bull: Americans consume on average 8 lbs of pesticide a year. If that is your wish DRINK UP! Cheers!!
The FFC did claim during the move interim that their increased storage would enable them to stock more, store more and there fore be able to buy thus reducing prices. Time will tell. I will still go there to get the occasional bag of chips or eggs. Same for the Frontier. But my money is invested in that communist bastion know as PFSC.
Um, did you know how much insect larvae, insect droppings, etc. you eat with Organic food? And the stuff doesn't last! You better watch out, your refridgerator will be crawling with bugs!
Your brain is crawling with bugs
In the Health section of the Times is an article about which foods benefit more from “organic” farming.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/strategic-spending-on-organic-foods/?em&ex=1209096000&en=565ea154753b786f&ei=5087%0A
Tara Parker-Hope writes;
”I was reading today in The Times that organic food prices are rising. It reminded me of a really helpful list from the Environmental Working Group, a nonprofit research and advocacy organization, about how to be a strategic shopper when buying organic fruits and vegetables.
While there is an ongoing debate about whether buying organic food really makes a difference in terms of health, the reality is that some consumers choose organic foods because they want to lower their exposure to pesticides. For those shoppers, it makes sense to know when to buy organic and which conventionally-grown foods are good enough because they already are low in pesticide residue.
The Environmental Working Group tested dozens of fruits and vegetables to determine which foods are the worst offenders in terms of pesticide exposure. Some fruits and vegetables grown with conventional farming methods simply don’t absorb the pesticides. Some examples of vegetables and fruits with very low pesticide residues are onions, mangoes, asparagus, broccoli and eggplant. So whether you pick them up from the regular produce section or the organic aisle, your pesticide exposure is going to be low.
So if you are on a budget, focus your organic dollars where it counts — on foods that suck in a lot of pesticides when grown using conventional farming methods. Foods that typically have high levels of pesticide residue include peaches, strawberries, sweet bell peppers, celery and lettuce.
To see the complete list of the 43 fruits and vegetables tested by the Environmental Working Group, go to http://www.foodnews.org/walletguide.php .
The site includes a printable chart of the dozen foods lowest in pesticide residue and those that are best purchased from the organic aisle. And to read the complete story about rising organic food prices reported by my colleagues Andrew Martin and Kim Severson go to http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/business/18organic.html?ref=health “
Note: Under a photo whitch can't be posted here the caption reads "Sweet bell peppers are among the vegetables high in pesticides."
There is a list somewhere on MSN about the 10 foods you should eat organic. among the highest in pesicide are strawberries (also highly GMO) bannanas, grappes and apples.
The PFSC carries what they term Minimally Treated most of which are apples, peppers and spinach.
Not that this is going to cure or convince our bug phobic pesticide lover.
wheres my fresh fish, meat, cheese, olive bar?
uhhhh they have such potential.
Wow! We can live our lives in constant fear of death caused by global warming, pesticides, cholesterol, the traffic on Coney Island Avenue, etc. etc...or we can enjoy what little we are blessed with. I'm not saying that none of the above aren't problems, but my grocery store choices aren't solely governed by ideology or fear. As it happens, I buy a lot of organic food because I personally think it tastes better. So what?
I've debated for a while whether it's worth posting these links or not. They certainly have nothing to do with either the original discussion of the FFC, or even the FFC vs the PFSC, they are one sided, and they barely scratch the surface of what one can read on the subject of traditional food and health.
But this keeps haunting me:
"Orangic food is for the neurotic and the rich."
Because it's not just about organic. And quality food should not just be for the neurotic and the rich.
So I'm posting the links, I'm figuring it will take anyone who finds them annoying about 3 seconds to scroll past.
http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/pesticides_polio.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/clouds.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/homogenization.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/highfructose.html
http://www.americangrassfed.org/faq.htm#3
http://www.eatingfresh.com/gfadvantages.html
http://www.publichealthaction.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=1
http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/urinary-tract-infections-in-women-may-be-difficult-to-treat-because-of-overuse-of-antibiotics-in-food-animals.html
http://www.michaelpollan.com/article.php?id=87
I think the new co-op is beautiful as well. I am happy to have the option when I need something special. However, I agree that the prices are very high. Natural Frontier is much more affordable, I am always happy to see this, and I do like the staff there so much, they are really nice and friendly. I am sure all the co-op folks are great too, but I have a soft spot for Natural Land, I just wish they used recycled bags.
peace, Leila
WOAH! I guess since the dentist and nutrionalist West A. Price says it's better it is!
Organic food costs a lot more (of MY money)! Therefore it is the Food of the Snobs.
And FFC is the Store of the Snobs.
'nuff said.
To annon 10:30 a.m. --
You are an asshole.
'nuff said.
Anyway, it is this attitude that the cheapest thing is always the best thing (because it is cheapest) that is leading us to economic and environmental ruin. I sure hope annon 10:30 a.m. doesn't drive an SUV and have a 50 inch color tv.
anon 6:32, you said...
"If the money of the PSFC members evaporated perhaps you'd have a point. However, they take those savings and spend it somewhere else."
True. Just like the savings obtained by those who shop at WalMart.
You said...
"A place like Fairway may be employing some locals (at what wages?)but it is a net drain on local income as Fairway shareholders skim the profits."
"Skim" is a term implying illegal activities. That aside, owners have a right to spend their profits as they please. Fairway is a New York City operation, hence, local, in my view.
You said...
"The PSFC keeps that money local:"
Really? You mean they buy their inventory from farms in Brooklyn? Or any of the other four boroughs? As for the non-cash savings, well, the shoppers spend those savings on whatever they like. Perhaps an Apple Computer or iPod, both made in China.
You said...
"I'm inclined to believe that someone who is engaged with their community enough to volunteer each month is also going to be a strong supporter of the mom and pop businesses on 7th Avenue. I don't have that same faith in Fairway shoppers."
I've been around Brooklyn long enough to have seen a near 100% turnover of the stores on 7th Avenue. Lots of moms & pops have bitten the dust. It's the rent. But I'm amused by your statement that shopping at Fairway is a display of a character defect.
Do you think Fairway shoppers have formed a conspiracy to avoid 7th Avenue mom & pop establishments? Are they part of a cabal aimed at causing the financial ruin of those kindly shopkeepers?
Options are good and so is discourse.
We are fortunate to have an abundance of both in DP.
I don't know, Anna. Too many options make my head hurt. Can't someone just make my decisions for me?
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