We couldn't make it to the Pomme de Terre open house last night, but fortunately, many others did.
They write it up in the comments section here (amid a classic argument about kids).
Two comments:
"It was jammed and the wine and food tasted great. pate chou (cheese puffs), duck on endive, cod croquettes, gruyere on toast and chicken on baguettes flowed from the kitchen all looking and tasting first class."
And
"Prices seem comparable to that of the Farm. Most main courses in the $14 - $22 range."
I'll see if I can prevail on Gary and Allison to send over a menu for posting.
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looks a little pretentious to me with the strollers and all. Would not leave my stroller out there especially on that stretch of the block. I hope the windows are sound proof during the summer that block is very noisy.
What sort of stupid comment is that? Please. Someone just likes to see their own type. But, hey, I think that's half the people who blog here.
Sometimes you imagine that the people who comment at the mere sight or mention of strollers must have sprung fully formed from the earth without ever having spent so much as a second as a kid raised by actual parents.
I was at the party and it was packed. The inside was tastefully done and cozy. I'm sure it will look great when they are officially open for business.
Please let's not start the stroller wars in Ditmas Park!
If PdT doesn't have a website up now, there's bound to be one soon that will post menu info. Anybody know the url?
www.pdtny.com
Does anyone have photos of inside the bistro?
I don't think that the stroller comment above is anti-kids or has anything to do with taking your children out to a restaurant. It seems to me that the comment was made about leaving your stroller outside an establishment for anyone to steal. And steal they will I promise you.
Once the lower-income families of the surrounding apt houses catch a glimpse of an unattended new stroller ripe for the grabbing... there goes your stroller.
This ain't the suburbs ladies and gentlemen, don't lull yourselves into a false sense of security.
If that corner can prompt a recent shooting, it can prompt some stroller stealing.
Yes, I would like to formally start the stroller wars in Ditmas Park...
Kids are great and there's plenty of time to take your kids out to eat at this or any number of restaurants, but....
Do you really need to take your noisy, uncontrollable little ones to the opening of a quiet corner French bistro right out of the gate, the minute they open?
You know it will be crowded to the max to begin with, and full of adults trying to enjoy thier first meal there without having to have the place turn into freaking Chuck E Cheese the second they open the doors.
Like a stroller age child really needs to eat French food the first night they open?
Give it a rest parents, and give yourself a nice meal out too.
I dunno 'bout you, but my three month old LOVES wine, pate on endive, cod croquettes, gruyere on toast and chicken on baguettes.
The party was great, thanks to Pdt for the open invite. The restaurant looks great and they have our full support.
However, the menu seemed french-american with the american heavily emphasized. Myself and several others around me were hoping the traditional french would be emphasized. It would be so cool to hang in Ditmas park and have an authentic french experience, not just a french looking restaurant with only french touches to the menu. If you're going to do something cool, do it all the way guys. French menu, american touches.
As for the baby strollers, c'mon. From a purely economic point, restaurants are having a touch time
in nyc, who would be concerned with such an issue.
Is this photo for real?
Were these unattended baby strollers placed in front of the restaurant for the benefit of this picture, in order to start a long argument on this blog?
It seems so, especially considering that the post header even mentions people having a 'classic argument about kids', almost trying to prompt one.
I don't think anyone would be that stupid to just leave their sroller out there for anyone to take. I don't relly see that many strollers left out on the sidewalk even in 'Stroller world USA' -Park Slope.
This seems like a photo op to me.
Set up.
"please lets not start the stroller wars in Ditmas Park" translates to "Please DO start the stroller wars in Ditmas Park so that this website gets a lot of hits and attention.
My kids will be with me when I go, until they decide they don't like the food. In that case they can call San Remo, while I go with my wife.
I hope they do well there.
I wish some of the people who post on this blog would just come right out and admit that it makes them nervous to live around black people because it seems like not a topic goes by without more than one moron posting about how local "low income" residents will do something bad like steal a stroller. If you are all so afraid of black people then why the fuck did your sorry ass move to Flatbush? Connecticut is too expensive? Too far from your freelance IT job? How an article about a new restaurant in our neighborhood becomes (1) a war against kids going to restaurants (who cares? Some kids behave well in public, some don't-- just like adults) and (2) an attack against the black, I mean, lower income, families living near the restaurant who are apparently going to rob and pillage every lilly white yuppie who descends upon this new bistro in search of coq au vin and creme brulee.
They have creme brulee?
Yummmmm.....!!!!!
I am actually just assuming that they will have creme brulee although that assumes that you can make it to the restaurant without being murdered or otherwise harmed by some low income people.
Just an aside, as the economy continues to decline, I wonder why so many people here feel so free about casting aspersions at low income people since many of you might find yourself in that unfortunate condition sooner than you think at which point you will no doubt steal strollers from restaurants and mug patrons of French bistros because that is what poor people do. All of them.
Write on, Jaguar
ha. i attended the Pomme de Terre opening for five minutes to say hello to friends and left my laundry cart on the street outside. guess what happened? it was gone when i left! stupid me. ergo: your carriages, not to mention your babies, are likely to be stolen too. even from beside your table, or from your very arms while you focus on your quiche.
btw: the story about the stolen laundry cart is true. on my mother grave.
It saddens me that some of our neigbbors, when they bother to take the silver spoon out of their mouths for a few moments, really have nothing much to say.
Creme Brulee, yumm...!!
I'd risk life and limb for creme brulee.
I took the picture using my camera phone as I left the party at about 6:30 because I wanted to show it to my wife, who could not attend with me. The strollers were there when I left, and I didn't even think about them until I uploaded the picture to my computer at home.
Don't forget that this was a PARTY held in the early evening, not an official opening of the restaurant held late at night. Some of the children there, from what I understand, belonged to friends of the owners. Aren't the owners entitled to invite their friends and their friends' kids, even to a party open to the general public? It seems weird to chastise people for bringing their kids to a party if you don't know the circumstances of those kids being there.
To end on a positive note, many thanks to Gary and Allison for the yummy food, beer and wine, and for hosting something that brought neighbors out to meet their neighbors. I'm sure Pomme de Terre will be a huge success.
I'd love to hear less about kids and the neighborhood's neuroses from people who weren't at the open house, and more about the food from people who were there.
Thanks,
- New to the nabe and hoping you people are a lot nicer to your neighbors in person.
Hey Jaguar:
I said Low Income people in my post. I did not say black people. I never said black people. You did.
You have single-handedly made my comment into a racial comment, which it wasn't.
What's the matter, do you have an issue? Apparently you seem to.
Since when does low income automatically translate to black? There are many Hispanic, Asian, even, oh my gosh, can I say it? WHITE people that live in those apartments who are lower income.
Nobody is being a racist here except you.
I never implied in any way that the lower income residents of the apartment buildings surrounding the new restaurant were anything but that.... lower income residents, as opposed to the home owners on the other side.
These people are in a certain economic bracket and of a certain mentality, especially the younger ones, and many of them are responsible for a lot of the vandalism and petty theft in the Newkirk area. Oh, Am I going to get in trouble for saying "These people" also?
These apt dwellers are not all black, and my comment was never intended to indicate that.
Stop being so angry and defensive and racist.
Ask many of the long time residents of this neighborhood who've had potted plants, chairs, etc. 'removed' from their porches over time if it's a good idea to leave an unattended stroller outside of a restaurant.
No, not all poor people commit muggings.
But, then not all rich people commit muggings either.
Dude, you can say whatever you want about your comments but everybody knows what you meant. Please. We all know the code words.
If your looking for a cerrtain meaning in something that wasn't intended, you'll certainly find it... for youself. Not everyone is thinking the way you are, so don't claim to speak for everyone.
You can find your own coded subtext in anything you want, but that's your problem. And only yours.
You seem to walking around waiting for someone to say something so you can 'deconstruct' their statement and make it a racial one.
I know what I meant and what was said, and it wasn't a racial thing at all. If it was and since this is an anonymous posting, why wouldn't I just admit it?
You see, you are carrying around a grudge and attaching your anger to things that don't merit it.
You don't speak for me, you don't speak for "we all" and you don't speak for 'everyone'. You only speak for yourself, Your angry, ready to attack, frustrated racist self.
Good Lord! Who knew a photograph of two strollers outside a restaurant would spark such controversy! Some people will find reason fight over anything I suppose...
I'm so excited PdT (Or Potato, as I affectionately like to call it) is finally open! I would LOVE to hear more about the food from people who were there (it was far too crowded to even get in the door when I walked by Tues night!) I can't wait to try them out next week! Yum Yum!!!
From 12:25, "Once the lower-income families of the surrounding apt houses catch a glimpse of an unattended new stroller ripe for the grabbing... there goes your stroller."
and then later at 3:50,
"These people are in a certain economic bracket and of a certain mentality, especially the younger ones, and many of them are responsible for a lot of the vandalism and petty theft in the Newkirk area."
This is some outrageous, unfounded, classist crap, perhaps disguising an overall racism, too, as Jaguar argues.
It's really inappropriate and asinine.
What apartment houses are you talking about? Which people precisely from those apt. houses are responsible for petty theft and vandalism in the area? How do you know this?
Furthermore, plenty of people from various class levels would grab an unattended, snappy stroller and run...in the city or suburbs, doesn't matter.
Jen Trifire
so you agree that it's not a good idea to leave two strollers on the sidewalk.
Obviously I am talking about the apartment buildings across the street and surrounding the restaurant. Duh. Why else would that have been brought up? The ones on all the streets between Newkirk and Foster. Um let's see.... graffitti regularly appears in and around these apartment buildings, but not on the private homes on the other side. There is garbage and litter all over those streets but not in the private homes section.
If you went over to the 70th precinct and took a look at the police arrest records of the apartment blocks as compared to the private homes blocks you would see what I was talking about.
There are mixed races in both the private homes and the apt buildings. There are blacks and whites in both. All that is being said is that the teenage population of the apt buildings are more likely to spraypaint the front of the new retaurant then the occupants of the private homes with their tags.
Oh no... did I imply BLACK when I said 'Tags'?
C'mon Jen, it's not a black and white thing and you'd be pretty silly to suggest that new strollers would disappear just as quickly or as frequently on a suburban middle class street full of residents that could afford them as they would next to an inner city building full of occupants that can't afford them.
read carfully... I said 'can't afford them' I didn't say 'Can't afford them becuase they're black'.
5:49:
typical uber liberal yapping.
To suggest that there is just as much theft of unattended property in the suburbs as in the city shows a great deal of lack of understanding of ones surroundings.
maybe not so much now that the whole entire neighborhood is cleaned up but for many years there was a huge cultural/class/economic and safety divide between the apartment building area around Newkirk Plaza and the private home section. This did indeed translate to a crime/safety issue for many many years.
Newer residents may not understand this, but for many decades, it was as if two entirely different communities existed. Walking home to one of the private homes through the Newkirk Area at night wasn't that safe.
the apartment buildings between Newkirk and Foster are much better now. Ten or so more years ago they were like a ghetto.
Crime is in every neighborhood. Surprise, surprise.
Are people of color sterotyped as being criminals? Of course, this is America.
Several weeks ago, 20/20 set up a hidden camera to test current "race-relations". 4 to 5 young white boys were selected to physically damage a vehicle in a parking lot. The neighborhood is white. As residents walked by, most looked and walked on. Two calls were made to 911.
During this time, a vehicle was in another parking lot. It contained 2to 3 black young men who were sleeping. Four calls were placed to 911. The black men were accused of being would-be robbers. Ironically, they transported the young black boys selected by 20/20 to damage the parked vehicle after the white boys.
In this Country, and in this neighborhood, race matters. Many white people look down on people of color. Look how they are portrayed in the media. But I said "many" white people, not ALL white people. I'm a black man who was educated in public school. There were many white teachers, who dedicated their lives to teaching their students, regardless of race or ethnicity.
When I was younger, I thought that if a white person spoke to me in a derogatory manner, that person is a racist. But then I would see those white people speak to OTHER WHITE PEOPLE in a derogatory manner. They were not racist, they were just rude.
It can be difficult, but I work to avoid judging people by the color of their skin. That is not what God wants.
As to Jaguar and Jen, I understand where both of you are coming from.
Don't be so quick to think that the kids who live in private houses don't get into trouble as much as the kids who live in the apartment buildings. The difference is that when the kids who live in private houses get into trouble, their parents often have the means and/or the contacts to see that their children are represented properly in the criminal justice system. I am not proud to admit that when my kid and her friends, all white and either residents of Ditmas Park, Windsor Terrace and Park Slope were taken to the precinct for possession of marijuana, I used a contact to "spring her." Not one of her friends was put through the system. My co-workers son was (who happens to be black) was put through the system for the same offense. This kid like my daughter and her friends had never been in trouble before. His case was later dismissed but this caused their much dismay.
Does anyone know the owner occupancy status of these apartment buildings you speak? Are units even available for sale? Just curious...
No French person will ever go here. The name, translates as potato. Get ready for the dirty filthy trash from this Mamary owned joint. And what? No stroller parking inside? My distaste, aside, I am sure the families forced out of their Park Slope apartments because of rent hikes will appreciate this fake french place.
Yes, we will appreciate it very much, thank you. Can't wait for it to open.
Another wonderful discourse on "The Ditmas Park Blog".
march 20 7:04,
20/20 conducted a test? Please. Make me laugh again.
This "test" was obviously conducted in a white neighborhood.
I'd like to see the same "test" -- white vandals, balck nappers -- repeated in a black neighborhood.
Then I'd like the investigators change the roles and races. Black vandals and white nappers in a black neighborhood. I'd also like to see the test run in the middle of the night in both neighborhoods.
An amusing aspect of this "test" is its suburban quality. One sight common to many streets in this city is a person sleeping in his car. Radio car drivers are always napping between runs. Those guys are not seen in suburbia except in some cases as they wait at train stations for potential fares.
There you often get some rumpled white guy with a big belly, moustache and some odd hair that needs attention. Or the skinny guy with the coffee and cigarette addictions.
Meanwhile, if you are unsure about the race or ethnicity of those who commit violent crimes, look at the police blotter that appears in almost every newspaper. You'll have a tough time finding examples of whites or asians beating, shooting, knifing, mugging, raping or robbing anyone.
On the race/crime issue: one of the horrific crimes to take place in the area occurred in a tony PPS house just a few years ago. It involved a group of young people, some priviledged, some not. You all know what I'm talking about.
9:09,
The Mark Fisher murder was committed by a couple of low-life punks. Yes, this is ONE case where the perps were white. They were low-lifes. It was not the college kids who lived in the big houses of PPS on Stratford Road who pulled the trigger or who bear the ultimate responsibility.
It was a vicious young thug who grew up with all the disadvantages -- no father, no education, substance abuse, seemingly insane mother -- who pulled the trigger. I think he and his mother lived in an apartment on Turner Place.
However, if want another 70th precinct crime to consider, think about this one.
Several years ago a black Haitian doctor was found murdered in his Mercedes. His dick had been cut off by his killer. Why? Because the doctor had been doing a David Paterson on the killer's wife and the cuckolded husband took his revenge. The doctor's family, last I read, was uncooperative. I am not sure if the killer was prosecuted.
Of course, just a few months ago, a teenaged marksman, who was caught, attempted to shoot a few people. But because he was such a poor shot, he hit three innocent victims a block away from his intended victims. That happened on a street near Prospect Park. The shooter was not white, nor were those hit by his wild shots.
We get it asswipe -- only black people commit crimes. What we don't get is why you continue to live around them?
I'm sure that this discussion, on this particular blog, will solve the race problem in the U.S.
Wasn't this about a French restaurant at one point?
Welcome to DP! It is not always as it appears.
On this blog there was an article about a cabbie that was killed near here.
NOT ONE COMMENT.
But put two strollers outside a nice new restaurant and all hell breaks loose.
And who starts it? Kid haters and racists who don't want whites moving in and resent the good businesses that are slowly transforming the "nabe".
Was it better when the druggy bodega existed? Remember the pay phone where the strollers were parked?
Maybe some one lost his drug business and is pissed.
Change isn’t coming, it’s here, embrace it or move on (out).
I just moved to this neighborhood about 2 years ago. I have to admit whenever I would think of Newkirk, I would think of gun shots and crime. But as I've seen, it is a safe area with cops being there all the time, and securtiy cameras all around. Not once have I encountered a problem and I don't feel UNSAFE anymore. Maybe it was bad a longg time ago but as a resident of Ditmas Park, it is not anymore. Second of all, I was very happy to see this french bistro open, but it is sad that this blog has turned into low-income vs. high-income war...I am disgusted by how dirty and loud Newkirk can get, but it is not the fault of the people who live in those buildings. They seem like hard-working people and its not their fault that the landlords do not maintain the buildings. And i think even one of those buildings are COOPs because they have a For SALE sign on the building. So to own property in BKLYN most probably means that you are not low-income. I doubt that the nieghbors will steal your strollers! I just think it is people who are afraid of the black and hispanics in the area and therefore blame all the "crime" on them. And by the way the "bodega" that was there before was owned by pakis like very other store in the neighborhood...I really don't think they sold drugs!!!!
thank you Jaquar! profound and absolutely on the money...from your local white jewish lady (and don't we know about predjudice?)
why am I reading this?
I tend to agree that Jaguar's comments show an ugly sort of reverse racism, w/ their anti-Yuppie sneers. Believe it or not, not all Yuppies are white - some are asian or black. And black people, too, don't want to be crime victims, either of black OR white perps. So tiresome to have to put up w/ the ceaseless self-righteous outpourings of moral police types, who are soooooo much purer than the rest of us - not a racist bone in their bodies, no doubt. I guess we lesser mortals should be packed off to re-education camps.
Have I ever said that I am not a white yuppie? So many assumptions. Apparently some think I am "black" just because I call bullshit when I see it. Frankly it doesn't matter what color my skin is because my point was to draw attention to the fact that a mundane post about the opening of a new restaurant in our neighborhood, which should be cause for celebration, becomes instead an opportunity for the neighborhood racists to make all manner of speculation about the imminent crime wave that will be perpetrated against the people who visit Pomme de Terre. Of course no mention of skin color is made but those of us who live here know that "low income" is just a cute way to say something racist without naming the race. Yeah, I called bullshit on that. Doesn't make me a reverse racist whatever that means (especially since you don't know my race), and I don't hate yuppies I just like to poke fun at them from time to time because they can be a bit silly but they can take it, I think.
Hey Jaguar:
If you know how to call bullshit when you see it you should look in the mirror and call yourself on your cell phone.
When you answer the phone simply say "Hello I'd like to speak with Bullshit please." And then say "speaking".
Jaguar:
If you know that "low income" is automatically a code word for "black" then by the same logic you would then automatically read "High income" as white?
Suggesting that low income (meaning black) wouldn't not include many whites, your view of high income by the same logic wouldn't include many blacks.
So I guess you don't think that many blcks have a high income.
You can't have it both ways.
See, reverse racism indeed.
Jaguar: you see what you want to see. And if it is bullshit that you want to see, then that's a pretty bad personal choice. Me, I'd prefer to see something else- something much nicer than crap.
Gee. I thought all along that low income just meant people who didn't make that much money. But now that I've read through these posts I now know that low income actually means a code word for black people.
thanks Jaguar. You learn something new everyday.
so if low income really means black, then what catogory do Spanish people who don't make much fall under? And what about an asian family? They also need to be called something other than low income otherwise it will get confusing. And what about the poor Mexicans? They need somewhere to go in the code department too. And oh what about the white people that make less than an average salary and live in an apt? They can't be called low income because only black people have that reserved as a code word. We'll have to find another income bracket or label for all the other skin colors that make the same amount of money as the poor blacks. Any ideas? Anyone? anyone?
hey I've got it:
this would be perfectly politically correct and might even satisfy Jaguar (but I doubt it):
instead of calling anyone from a particularly low economic bracket simply "low income" as in 'low income housing', we could more specifically say:
'Citizens of any and/or all skin colors and/or nationalities who do not make much money but are not necessarily African American." as in 'Citizens of any and/or skin colors and/or nationalities who do not make much money but are not necessarily African American Housing'
Jaguar:
If you know that "low income" is automatically a code word for "black" then by the same logic you would then automatically read "High income" as white?
Exactly right.
Jaguar and the "Real Ditmas Blog" hate that white people have moved into the "nabe". It was much better when drugs were dealt outside the bodega at Newkirk and Argyle as they still are at Argyle and Cortelyou.
What they are so resentful of is the young white new comers were smart NOT rich. The reason there are strollers outside of restaurants is the young families do not have nannies or grandparents nearby to take care of the kids.
When apartments cost $50K - $80K the tenants said "who cares" well young married couples did and bought the apartments and had kids. The very kids we see in the restaurants.
Oh BTW - Had the renters bought at those prices when the sponsors were offering, they would have monthly costs at about 2/3 of the current rents.
The backlash against the white, and lets be clear here as much as jaguar says it ain't so this is a black hating whites diatribe, newbie’s is because the people that had the opportunity to buy at amazing prices were too blind to see the forest for the trees and are now left out.
Boo Hoo!
Right on. I love some of you people.
"the people that had the opportunity to buy at amazing prices were too blind to see the forest for the trees and are now left out."
While I don't agree with Jaguar that "low-income" is code for "black," I disagree with your above quoted statement. Whole portions of American society were systematically and legally discriminated against when it came to housing. This didn't change until the 1980's. Some would say that it continued with the current subprime mortgage crisis. Those who were discriminated against and their children inherit the legacy of those policies today. That said, yes people have to pick themselves up by the proverbial bootstraps and stop waiting for the help to come in the form of government aide. It is not going to happen nor should it. We also have to realize and acknowledge that as people of European descent, that although most of us did not draft or legislate these policies, we are the beneficiaries of them. I, like Obama, have heard my grandparents and parents say horrible things about non-white people, even though the same was said about their parents when they immigrated to the U.S. My father jokes that the first English word that his grandfather learned was the "n" word. He said it was because his grandfather knew getting off of the boat, that he was "better than somebody." I worry for my bi-racial children as well as my white nieces and nephews. I am really becoming discouraged because I don't think that we as a society can ever overcome the problems of race and class in America.
"wasn't this about a French restaurant at some point?"
yes it was, until Jaguar turned this in to a racial argument.
which, I believe he/she was waiting for.
8:14,
I don't think Jaguar turned this into a racial argument. The comments that did turn this into a racial argument are as follows:
8:24 (1st poster); 12:25 (8th poster).
Anon 8:27 AM... Funny, I don't see ONE mention specifically about race in those 2 references you gave. Again, another person wanting to read race into anything that says "low-income"..
And Anon 12:31 AM says "I am really becoming discouraged because I don't think that we as a society can ever overcome the problems of race and class in America."
Well 8:27 AM's comments are an example of one part of the reason.
What kind of outlet are you people missing in your real lives that you have to shout back and forth at each other, responding to comments on a blog post that wasn't even about racism to begin with? Do you honestly think you're going to convince someone who posts as "anonymous" or with the oh-so-real name of jaguar that you are correct?
Let's just thank Ben and Liena for posting information about the neighborhood and be grateful that there are so many people here who are interested in their community.
Enough already.
Threads on many blogs have a weird way of warping. That's part of what blogging anonymously is about. Comments on a thread may not solve any problem or convince someone to change their mind but the comments are very insightful. We get to hear what people are really thinking on any number of topics. People will post thoughts that they wouldn't dare say aloud. It is clear that there is a racial/class divide and it does need to be addressed.
So lets discuss it.
Did Obama end his presidential hopes or open a difficult subject up for a real dialogue?
I don't think the comment about "lower income residents" was meant to be racist. However it did have an air of insensitivity about it that many find jarring. It made sweeping generalizations about every resident of the nearby apartment building being thieves. Here it is again for the record:
"Once the lower-income families of the surrounding apt houses catch a glimpse of an unattended new stroller ripe for the grabbing... there goes your stroller."
This may not be a race issue but it is a class issue and is every bit as devisive. A comment like this suggests an "us vs. them" mentality. Our community is made up of upper, middle, and lower income earners and all deserve respect. We are all neighbors after all. Class distinction is a particularly sensitive issue in our community right now. Let's not flame it with insensitive comments.
jaguar--i have got to get your back on this. so often there are veiled racial comments made on this blog that are rooted in the ignorance and fear of many white residents here about the feelings of non-white residents towards them.calling bullshit on that is not racial baiting, it is asking people to confront something in themselves that they are uncomfortable looking at. that said it is so sad to me that the strongest attribute of this neighborhood, its diversity of ethnicity and socioeconomic status, is evidently more of a real estate tagline for many posters than an actual heartfelt belief.making actual connections with people is way different than exotic-ising them as a way of trumpeting your own capability for tolerance of people you think are low-class.
So if it is indeed a class issue doesn't it still automatically become a race issue because Afican Americans and Latinos, due to a number of reasons make up the majority of the "lower class" in this city? It is also interesting to note that the "darker" skinned Latinos don't fare as well as white latinos. Racism probably? The answers to your questions 12:41are - probably and yes.
sorry I missed the opening! definitely look forward to eating there soon. I'm a huge fan of the Russian deli on Ave H and other lower-key offerings, but it's definitely nice to have something slightly upscale to visit, as well.
where is the russian deli on H?
Even if "low-income" isn't a code word for black, the comment is still messed up. What? Just because someone is poor they are going to steal you stroller and we should be afraid of them? Nobody wants your freaking stroller. Get a grip.
Waaa....!!!!
No Creme Brule....!!!!
You lied...!!!!
Black...
White...
Whatever....
You lied about the Creme Brulee.!!
If you will lie about the Creme Brulee,
you will lie about everything.
Jaguar...You have NO morals.
You can never be trusted again..!!
5:37 PM, asked about a Russian Deli on Avenue H. It's on the west side of Coney Island Avenue, a short distance from the corner.
You will find a couple more Russian places on Avenue J.
The discussion lacks the wit and sparkle of the Golliwog debate. Definitely time to give it a rest.
So.... how was the food?
The appetizers they passed around were quite yummie and the menu seemed pretty French to me.
The stroller discussion is just silly. The owners have gone on the record saying it will be a "more grown up" place than The Farm and there is not even a kids menu. So the implication that somebody was trying to stage the photo to send some sort of message--unless it's "you can bring the kiddos, but leave 'em parked outside"--is pretty absurd.
Actually in certain parts of Europe you can live your stroller with kid in tow parked outside the establishment. I have seen it many times in my travels. However, it is something that I would not do here in america.
A European women got arrested a couple of years ago for ding just that. Her toddler was placed in temporary foster care and it was a whole ordeal. I don't even think that they do this in Europe anymore.
She was Dutch and yes they still do it.
From New York Magazine
http://nymag.com/restaurants/openings/45304/
Pomme de Terre
1301 Newkirk Ave., at Argyle Rd., Ditmas Park, Brooklyn; 718-284-0005
When the Farm on Adderley opened in the culinary wasteland of Ditmas Park a year and a half ago, the neighborhood rejoiced. Things are looking even brighter on the food front now that the Farm’s owners, Gary Jonas and his wife, Allison, have teamed up with Brooklyn gastropreneur Jim Mamary on their second venture, an unassuming French bistro named Pomme de Terre. The unswervingly Gallic menu, designed by Farm on Adderley chef Tom Kearney, sticks to standards like duck confit (pictured), skate in brown butter, tarte Tatin, and a croque monsieur. “Pretty straight- forward stuff,” says Kearney. Still, churning your own butter, making your own charcuterie, and dry-aging your own beef speak to something a little more ambitious. And if the twice-cooked fries are as crisp and delicious as they are at the Farm, Pomme de Terre will do its name proud.
Not that it really matters so much but, for the record, she was Danish.
Yeah, right, calling the low-income people in our neighborhood criminals isn't a code word for race. Yeah, right.
By the way, I am actually looking forward to eating at Pomme de Terre which is why I originally clicked on this post in the first place. Unfortunately it only took 8 comments on this blog before somebody had to start talking about how low income people from the nearby buildings will steal your stroller. Does anybody here seriously think that comment was meant to include white low-income people?
I hate to break it to you but for the most part class and race in this country are irreparably linked and you can't really discuss one without discussing the other.
So, yes, I continue to call bullshit on anybody who says that those classist comments weren't loaded with racist implications. In fact, I think the poster knew exactly what he was saying when he said it.
I am laughing at annon 11:27 p.m. for assuming I am "black" and that I am not one of the "white" yuppies who recently moved in. What evidence does this fool have of my skin color? Can't a white yuppie call bullshit on a racist comment?
are they supposed to open on wednesday? and still no menu to be seen?
Jaguar_Gorgonne your rhetoric betrays your prejudice.
“If you are all so afraid of black people then why the fuck did your sorry ass move to Flatbush?”
“I mean, lower income, families living near the restaurant who are apparently going to rob and pillage every lilly white yuppie who descends upon this new bistro in search of coq au vin and creme brulee.”
“…some of our neigbbors, when they bother to take the silver spoon out of their mouths for a few moments,…”
“We get it asswipe -- only black people commit crimes. What we don't get is why you continue to live around them?”
Thanks for taking a thread on a new restaurant and elevating it to race baiting.
You haven’t made “fun” or “called bullshit on” you’ve done your best to draw lines and keep people apart.
Oh..You might try using a spell checker.
11:33--
They have menus.
You want they should FedEx one to you? Perhaps they could char it around the edges to prove that the broiler's working too, cuz I heard they're acutely focused right now on allaying the doubts of skeptics on the neighborhood blog.
I must say, that I agree with Jaguar. I am an African-American newcomer and a renter. I did not move into the neighborhood when apartments were 80K-90K. I moved in when the prices were (and still are) too high to pay to put up with the shitty "Q" train. "So Mr. or Mrs. Boo Hoo!", as a single person making just shy of 6 figures, I am not a homeowner, I am, like the low-income people spoken of elsewhere in this blog, a RENTER! A person who rents an apartment in a nice, well kept building. I have never lived in a neighborhood where there was such a stigma attached to renting an apartment! Instead of figuring out ways to exclude one another, why not try to work with what we have in common. For anyone who is interested, I have no interest in stealing anyone's stroller, as I have no children. If I did, I would purchase my own stroller and I would not park it outside of a restaurant. Here's three reasons not to leave your stroller "parked" outside. A stroller is not a car, even though many of them are about the same size. A stroller is the thing you sit your childs tender butt in, you don't want pigeons getting to it. Finally, a stroller is personal property. Would you leave your purse hanging outside of anywhere?
Seriously, Irritated
jaguar,
Into what income class do local criminals fall?
That aside, crime is down in the neighborhood. However, no matter what you choose to believe, the white residents of the 70th precinct are more law abiding than the black residents.
Digital technology leaves no doubt. Photos of miscreants snapped by security cameras leave no doubt about the people committing crimes in this city.
anon 1:51,
You may think the Q train is shitty. But the value of local real estate is not contingent on that opinion.
Meanwhile, if subway quality is your chief requirement for buying a place, why did you decide to live in an area with sub-par service?
Real estate prices will not stand still while you think about the right place to buy to buy a home. Frankly, your rationale is one of the lamest I've ever encountered.
To better understand your view, which subway line is good, in your opinion?
Since subway lines run long distances, there must be a neighborhood along one of them that meets your needs. Instead, however, you have admitted to living in a place where you don't want to be. Why would you do that if your income permits more freedom of choice?
The Q and the B trains are actually pretty good. During the week, the B gets me to my job in midtown in about 30 minutes. The Q is also fairly quick, and easy for getting to Union Square, 34th St. and 42nd St. It was one of the reasons we chose this area: fast subway service and little to no need for a car.
Late at night, the Q isn't very frequent, but having relied on the F train in Park Slope for years, I'm used to that.
Obviously the types of comments made by cistg are what I am talking about here.
""So Mr. or Mrs. Boo Hoo!", as a single person making just shy of 6 figures, I am not a homeowner,.."
Like I said the young couples were smart NOT rich. You make substantially more than most of us and you don’t have kids to pay for.
If you have been here for two years, you blew it. Apts were going to 100K – 150K two years ago. Four years ago they were half that price.
BUT even at today’s prices you can buy a one bedroom for 225K – 250K. If you do the math I’ll bet the monthly nut would be the same as renting. With the tax deductions you would be saving a ton of money and building equity.
So “Mr. Irritated” keep putting profit in your landlords pocket and own N-O-T-H-I-N-G!!!
Boo Hoo!!!
There is a rumor that PDT is already open tonight (Monday). Anyone know if that's true? Eater.com is reporting that the restaurant is already open.
Dear 2:52pm,
"Boo Hoo"? Wow, I know that's youth and not intelligence speaking. Perhaps you are correct, I may have blown it. I was simply trying to make sure that my fiance was properly buried prior to moving. That's where a lot of my funds went prior to my move to Flatbush. Don't judge. You never know what a person's situation is. And BTW, the train was not my criteria for moving, it was diversity. I see now that this is slowly going to change.
Still Slightly, Irritated
I'm sorry for your loss.
This is a great and diverse neighborhood.
I was lucky to find it when I needed it.
I hope you find that it can become a pleasant home as well.
Sincerely.
"Boo Hoo” poster.
Here's the recent timeline which proves without a shadow of a doubt that Jaguar is only interested in race baiting and nothing else....
Yesterday at 8:57 AM, someone posted "Definitely time to give it a rest."
At that point, agreed. And the next seven posts for the next entire 24 hour period were about the restaurant and the stroller issue- the two issues that this thread was originally about. Not one post about race or racism, low income or black people.
Finally we had put the silly race argument to rest and we all moved on. Or so it seemed. But it was not to be. More than a FULL DAY LATER, our wonderful Jaguar came flying in again with the race issue when we were all done.
Stir that pot up some more. You've been exposed as the one on here who wants to create the bullshit and keep the flame burning.
Jaguar shut up already. We've moved on.
100!!!!!
What gift do I win?
5:27,
"Finally we had put the silly race argument to rest and we all moved on."
I do not believe that the "race argument" is silly. Unfortunately, we live in a Country where race still matters. This blog is like a supermarket, in that many people enter with different topics on their mind. If a comment is posted that someone does not agree with, s/he does not have to respond.
Jaguar
Continues to race bait.
The neighborhood is better than his prejudices.
Of course we live in a country where race still matters and the race issue is not a silly one. But those two points are a much much larger issue than can be dealt with on this blog or particularly in this thread. This little thread on this little blog isn't the forum to accomplish righting the wrongs of the nation's race problmes. If something on the topic of race comes up in here it naturally creates a discourse which in this case it did. However when the discourse seems to have naturally run its course in this forum about
a French restaurant, Jaguar seemed determined to steer the conversation right back to where he/she wants it... to a racial argument.
Jaguar comes across as a very very angry person with a major chip on his/her shoulder who's main interest is to wait for Any little excuse to twist anything into a reverse racial assault. And just when we've exausted the topic and the thread returns to where it began and where it should have always been, Jaguar insists on bringing it back around to a white vs. black thing.
Jaguar has hijacked this forum for the needs of expressing his/her racial anger.
Cool off Jag. Go find a race site to blog on.
Appears Jaguar_gorgonne has a lot of sites s/he likes to hate on. And s/he definitely likes to bait no matter what the discussion or race:
http://boardreader.com/t/MLB_General_398285/Are_all_Indians_fans_racist_bufoons_1658302.html
http://blogs.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/5521
http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2007/09/whats_on_tap_fo.php
2 of those links got cut off:
http://boardreader.com/t/MLB_General_398285/
Are_all_Indians_fans_racist_bufoons_1658302.html
http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/
archives/2007/09/whats_on_tap_fo.php
8:19, 8:35 & 8:36,
You have gone a little to far. To investigate the "background" of Jaguar is taking this thread too far off course. This is about our French Bistro, not Jaguar.
Here is my attempt to put us back on course:
I believe the Bistro opens this Wednesday. I'm excited! I can't wait for the warm weather and outdoor seating.
I fail to see why Jaguar is being attacked here when he/she was responding to other posters' nonsense about how people eating at the new bistro should beware of "low income" residents who are a blight on the community and are looking for strollers to steal.
It doesn't matter whether it was about race or class, that innuendo was intolerant.
And so what if a post about a restaurant opening veered way off course? Community dialogue doesn't always fit neatly into pre-arranged categories. A bougie little bistro opening up on a commercial strip with no similar businesses along it is bound to inspire talk about race, class, gentrification, community development, real estate values, etc.
Jen Trifire
I walked by the restaurant tonight and it was filled with staff, probably doing a training in advance of the opening. The tables were set up and everything looked great.
Jen: Your comments seem in contradiction of itself. You say jaguar's comments were simply responding to an observation that had to do with the bistro. (But anyone who responded to his/her comments are not "simply responding"? ) And then, you seem to be in support of the veering off course of this bistro entry discussion... yet the veering off IS the comments in reply to jaguar.
And as for the comment about looking up a simple name being used on the internet going to far: People shouldn't be so naive to think people aren't googling their names. In case you didn't know, even prospective employers are doing that to job applicants. Or even present employees. And so far, the law has been on their side to fire them. I don't agree with that, but there is not yet a case where someone won by declaring what they do outside of work has no bearing on their job. Just look at Spitzer.
It's not just Jaguar.
Ben Smith, the author of this blog is the blogger on Politico, http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/ , he makes a living creating controversy.
It seems he has been successful in creating the same controversy here.
Unfortunately the rough and tumble of the political scene does great harm to our community.
The Ditmas Park Blog has managed to split people apart and create the worst dialogues that not only pit neighbors against each other but have managed to do damage to businesses that are just getting their heads above water.
It is fun to see a political blog create turmoil however it is with great disappointment to see this blog destroy businesses and community relations.
IMO – This blog is a detriment to the community and needs to be shut down.
What ever the intensions this blog has become a place to tear relations and businesses apart.
There is now talk amongst the businesses how to avoid and/or deflect the damage that this blog will bring them.
The neighborhood could benefit from a local blog but this one created animosity from the beginning.
I think this blog does a great job of letting people know what's happening in the neighborhood and am thankful to Ben and Liena for maintaining it.
To think, all of these conspiracy theories started because of a picture with two strollers in it.
What businesses are talking about avoiding this blog? Please provide examples before throwing such accusations around?
I don't think the blog is creating divisions, so much as the comments from a few people who like to stir things up. All of you who hate this blog so much are only adding hits to it, helping it become a success.
Thanks again to B&L. I never would have heard about the party at Pomme De Terre had it not been for this blog. I went, met a lot of nice people, and had a great time!
It's true.
jaguar is working out of the Yvette Clark office and has orders to race bait local blogs where the Haitian vote has come under pressure from new home owners.
The Clark base cannot sustain control if the new home owners have thier say.
People need to think before they post and calm down. The so-called controversy-provoking posts on this blog includes such incendiary items as one about whether the name of the street is "Beverly" or "Beverley" road, a picture of Flatbush in the 50's, and a link to an article about landmarking.
I wonder if you were face to face with your neighbors, would you still take these tones, and call for a personal blog (one you are free to avoid by not visiting) to be shut down?
Chill out. Go get a glass of wine together at Pomme de Terre
What businesses have been hurt by this blog? None to my knowledge.
And what businesses were damaged that were just getting their heads above water?
If you are going to make nonsence claims, please cite examples, otherwise your theories are just that... theories, not facts.
If a business is a good business, this silly blog is meaningless to it's success or downfall.
If you know othersie, let's hear which businesses have suffered?
I can see how people would take offense to a racial comparison (which I don't believe was initially made here with the low income comment anyway), but I fail to see how anyone can make an issue out of a class comparison. A class comment is insensitive? Gimmee a break. A class comparison is factual. There are some on this blog who suggest that leaving a stroller out in the suburbs is no more risky than leaving it unattended in the City, and that lower income people are no more likely to steal something expensive and unattended than a higher income person. Gimmee a break.
To suggest that rich people are prone to stealing things as much as poor people is a laughable fantasy.
The very nature of economics leads poor people who do not have the income for something towards stealing more than people who have the means to buy the item. Duh.
Since someome used the study of people sleeping in their cars in different environments as a racial statistic, lets use the car comparison for the theft issue....
Take a new mercedes convertible left running and unattended with the door open and the keys in the car.
Place that car on the street in Southhampton. Then take that same unattended running/keys in the ignition car and place it on a street in East New York. Guess which place the car will disappear faster?
Oh no, did I just make another racial comment?
The thought of nameless, faceless, gutless bloggers is not uncommon but still sad. Stand up people. Be heard and be seen. Stop hiding behind your anonymous shroud. We are neighbors, let us be civil and with conviction.
-John Hagan
562-505-4689
It's easy to leave a name and phone number when your opinions are kumbaya. Try going against the grain of a popular idea (racial, class or not) and then leave your name and number. Heck, why not put your address out there too.
And by the way, all you people against anonymous: jaguar_gorgonne is not exactly a name and phone number either. When s/he leaves his/her full name and phone number, I will too.
First, let me say congratulations and thank you to Gary and Allison for bringing this fine neighborhood another fine place to dine. Second, if I may sidestep the issue of race for a moment, I'd like to cast a wish for another worthy restaurant on Cortelyou, something more casual than The Farm and more formal than Bo Bo's Chinese take-out. A sit-down Thai restaurant, perhaps, or even a simple pub. A girl can dream, right.
The new coop will have a sit down area with tables, where you can eat purchases, including those made at the new soup and salad bar. I think this is going to be (another) great addition to the neighborhood. Get off the subway, don't feel like cooking one evening? Don't have the deep pockets or the energy for a more formal restaurant? Grab something healthy and nutritious at the Coop!
I would love a Vietnamese place! I know there are a lot near Ave. U or thereabouts. Someone needs to tell them (or any of the owners in Sunset Park) they'd make a lot if they opened a small place here.
Good news about the co-op.. that sounds promising!
"The thought of nameless, faceless, gutless bloggers is not uncommon but still sad. Stand up people. Be heard and be seen. Stop hiding behind your anonymous shroud."
um, that's the whole point of a blog. And the internet in general. If people were required to put their real names and contact info behind every post, these blogs would have but a tiny fraction of the posts and most of these blogs would die out quickly and the discourse would be irrelevant as people would only post very safe and self-censored thoughts.
It's not sad. It's the nature of the beast.
Putting your name and phone number on here is not an act of courage, it's just an act of meaninglessness (and some might say stupidity). It's no different than writing a thought with your name and phone number on the local lamppost.
Why would you do that? What does it prove? It's only an invitation to crazies.
Looks like I really struck a nerve. What really cracks me up is that so many people seem to be very confused about my own racial identity. The same assumptions that make somebody say the low income people in the neighborhood will steal your precious strollers are made whan it is assumed I am black for questioning the veiled racism in that original and ridiculous quote.
Anyway, I can't wait to goto Pomme de Terre. Hopefully I will see some of you there!
By the way, extra points to the guy who found the three rather innocuous posts I have made on other blogs in one of which I was actually calling bullshit on somebody for criticizing white yuppies (Brownstoner).
This is one of my favorite quotes on the whole blog:
"To suggest that rich people are prone to stealing things as much as poor people is a laughable fantasy."
Has anybody here ever heard of white collar crime? Rich people steal more money on Wall Street and in corporate board rooms than all of the poor people in the world combined and usually they get away with it.
This is one of my favorite quotes on the whole blog:
"To suggest that rich people are prone to stealing things as much as poor people is a laughable fantasy."
Has anybody here ever heard of white collar crime? Rich people steal more money on Wall Street and in corporate board rooms than all of the poor people in the world combined and usually they get away with it.
And yet another tangent. We're talking about stealing strollers and laundry carts. I doubt Joe Millionaire is going to take your Maclaren.
I don't leave strollers out in poor neighborhoods and I don't leave stock options lying around in corporate offices.
Jaguar LOVES stirring the pot, doesn't he/she? What a tool!
I really don't believe this blog is hurting neighborhood businesses. I personally wouldn't have known of the restaurants on Cortelyou if not for this blog and other websites, since I don't live in that area. Most residents probably are not devoted blog readers, but the blog certainly does provide some free advertising for area businesses. Not all feedback is positive, of course, but in many cases the comments are pretty balanced and give an accurate impression of a store or restaurant.
I don't think the fact that Ben blogs on Politico has anything to do with the tone of the comments here.
A few "flamers" have found this blog and continue to flail away at it causing the threads to get of tract.
Jaguar is one, a quick google reveals his racist messages across a wide spectrum, ESPN, Daily News and local Brooklyn blogs have all been bashed by him.
Kleptomania does not racially discriminate... Just look at Wynona Ryder. Girl has both money AND sticky fingers!
The only way this blog hurts business is when someone outs a restaurant for making them sick... totally ok by me!
NEVER shut it down. Even when we squabble, at least we’re connecting…
And this is one of the most egotistical postings on this thread:
"Looks like I really struck a nerve. "
Proud of yourself Jaguar? It seems like you are. Clearly, your intention was to throw a racially heated firebomb inot this blog and stir up a whole bunch of crap. You obviously succeeded. But it seems you succeeded just a litle too much, as you have now been eposed and called out on your own bullshit!
"Has anybody here ever heard of white collar crime? Rich people steal more money on Wall Street and in corporate board rooms than all of the poor people in the world combined and usually they get away with it."
But that's not what we're talking about here. We are talking about baby strollers left out on the sidewalk in front of a small neighborhood restaurant. I don't think this is the thread about Corporate Wall Street crime and greed. Go elsewhere if that's what you want to preach about.
jaguar,
as you know, crime comes in many forms. But the only crime that matters in these parts is violent crime.
The 70th precinct has its share, as police department figures reveal. Moreover, as surveillance photos have shown and witnesses reported, the trouble-makers are almost all young black males.
In fact, though there are not many young black men in high positions on Wall Street, there was one a few years ago.
Joe Jett. He worked for Kidder Peabody. He worked there doing sophisticated trading of some bonds. But, there was a problem. He made some errors and tried to hide them.
However, the truth came out when the company books wouldn't balance. He lost so much of the firm's money that it was bankrupt.
Like Bear Stearns, it was acquired in a fast transaction by a healthy organization. Kidder was taken over by Paine Webber, which itself was bought by Union Bank of Switzerland.
Thus, thanks to the trading trickery of Joe Jett, Kidder collapsed and many employees were suddenly and unexpectedly out of work. Applause.
One time my husband was loading up the car with our daughter and all her accoutrements, including the stroller which in his harried state, he left on the corner of Beverley Road and East 21st street. Lots of "low-income" people around. Lots of black people around too. When he realized what he had done, he returned to aforementioned corner about 6 hours later. The stroller was still there, untouched.
That stroller should be made a Statue on that corner... people would come to look and stare in awe of the event that took place there.
Hold up, AND there were black people you say?!
Jaguar, what does this mean?!
It means exactly what I have been fucking saying all along which is that there is no reason to assume your black neighbors want to steal your shit. In other words, you can take your sorry ass to Pomme de Terre and not have to worry about being raped and pillaged.
jaguar, don't lose hope. not everyone is totally inept at detecting sarcasm. and some people do know not to shoot the messenger. thanks for calling people out on classist, racist posts.
countdown to wednesday...
Racism is ugly, but what is wrong with Classism? This is a capitalist society. This isn't a communist neighborhood.
jaguar, please lose your racism. not everyone is totally suckered by your race baiting . and thankfully some people do know to shoot the messenger. thanks for hijacking this thread and making it all about classist, racist posts.
countdown to Jaguars next race baiting posting...
I think Jaguar has made this thread less about race and more about Jaguar.
Jaguar's now using those big words s/he learned in 3rd grade.
Just because Jaguar defends white yuppies, means nothing. It just confirms that s/he is indeed a baiter of any type for the sake of baiting. S/he doesn't even bait with a cause.
The last poster is right: Jaguar's not about any cause. S/he's about Jaguar.
TO ALL POSTERS HEREAFTER,
After posting your comment, please answer the following question with a "Yes" or "No":
Does racisim still exist in America?
obviously this nabe is very divided and yes racism exist in america.
It is not just this neighborhood. Some of the comments are indicative of what people are thinking all over the city. What is scary is that this is a progressive, diverse neighborhood where residents voted overwhelmingly for Obama in the democratic primary. Imagine what people think in other parts of the country or even in other parts of Brooklyn.
My guess is that the annonymous posts here that keep bashing me as a so called race baiter are all from one or two people only but it looks like more because they use the annonymous screen name. Probably the same person who kicked it all off by implying that your low-income (read: minority) neighbors will steal your strollers and paint graffiti on you while you eat.
So, when does Pomme de Terre open any way? I can't wait!!!
(I vote "yes").
Yes, 8:47, I agree: "Liberalism" isn't what it used to be.
I am looking forward to Pomme de Terre. I think it will be a great addition to the neighborhood.
And to answer the question: hell, yes!; racism is alive and kicking in the U.S.
Jen Trifire
march 25, 2:11 said...
"Lots of black people around too. When he realized what he had done, he returned to aforementioned corner about 6 hours later. The stroller was still there, untouched."
If the stroller had had one of those clear plastic shrouds over it, it would have disappeared in minutes.
Putting infants and babies in plastic bags is never a good idea.
march 25, 8:47 says...
"What is scary is that this is a progressive, diverse neighborhood where residents voted overwhelmingly for Obama in the democratic primary."
Is it merely your opinion that Obama won in the local voting districts? Or is your statement based on actual voting totals?
Since Obama is capturing about 90% of the black vote around the country, it's a safe bet he has a lot of support in Flatbush.
But women are voting for Hillary, and she is our senator. However, she seems to be suffering from not only memory loss, but memory replacement. Something like Arnold's "Total Recall" movie. She now believes she was the target of enemy sniper fire on a trip she took to Bosnia a decade ago.
If she wants the real experience of bullets flying past her head, she can visit parts of Flatbush. Today's Post probably has a map of the latest gunfire sites.
Most of Clinton's voters were white. What's wrong with Blacks voting overwhelmingly for a Black candidate? White people have been doing it for years. I know that if Clinton gets the Democratic nomination, that I will probably vote for McCain. MAny of my friends and family have expressed this sentiment because we find Clinton's tactics distasteful. Voting Republican won't be going against the grain because many Blacks are socially conservative anyway. Most are protestant Christians who are against abortion, gay marriage and amnesty for illegal aliens. Of course, the New York Black community tends to be more Caribbean and they are probably in favor of amnesty, but they are far from the majority nation-wide. Economically Blacks tend to be more liberal in supporting various social programs. The liberal Democrats have just been placing band aids on problems and creating dependancy on government which doesn't help in the long run. Blacks were predominantly Republican before FDR and McCain would be the type of Republican who can pull enough of the Black vote to beat Clinton and have Blacks look at Republican party as a viable option.
anon 1:00,
My question arose because another poster claimed Obama was the favorite candidate in this neck of the blogosphere. Meaning, he got the bulk of primary votes in our districts.
He might have. I don't know. The race is neck and neck nationally. And there is no reason to think one candidate leads the other here in our area.
But the votes were cast. Maybe Obama has a big lead here. I don't know.
Anyway, Hillary is beginning to look like Forrest Gump, turning up at important historical moments, more of them every day. However, like Forrest, it's all fiction.
Her steady stream of lies about matters like sniper fire suggests she's losing some marbles. It also says she's contemptuous of American voters, thinking they will believe any stupid tale that she tells.
It's looking more and more as though Obama will get the nomination. He'll get it in spite of his connection to a minister who looks up to Louis Farrakhan.
Then Obama will lose in the biggest landslide in American history come November.
From what I read, Obama did beat Clinton in our district. I disgree with your assumption that Obama would lose in the general election by a landslide. Recent polls have McCain only slightly ahead of both Obama and Clinton and he is not even far enough ahead of either of them to close the statistical margin of error. He is definitely benefiting from Clinton and Obama's in-fighting. It appears as though even if Clinton wins PA, she can not catch up in the delegate count to Obama, without the superdelegates and if the superdelegates anoint her, it is a wrap for the Democrats. There is no way they would win the general election because they would have alienated too many in Obama's support base.
150!!.
A waste of bandwidth but 150 just the same
2:38,
you may doubt my prediction that Obama would lose in an epic landslide against McCain. And you may have reached that view based on national polls. But the polling is way off.
If Obama is nominated, voters will get a daily reminder that his Princeton and Harvard educated wife experienced her first moment of pride in her country within the last year.
You can be sure the voters will declare her unfit to occupy the White House as a result of that comment. Apparently Thurgood Marshall is nobody, Condi Rice is nobody, Rod Paige is nobody, Margaret Spellings is nobody and all the superstar athletes, entertainers, models, musicians and actors are nobodies.
Apparently to her over 40 years of legislative and social activism for civil rights meant nothing.
We will also have our daily reminder that Obama supports a minister who claims the US government created AIDS to kill blacks. And that Obama allowed this lunatic racist to become a powerful educating force in the lives of his two kids.
We will see the photo of a smiling Obama with his arm around our very own Al Sharpton, formerly of 19th and Ditmas.
No doubt the subject of reparations will arise. When it does, millions of white voters will suddenly understand that electing a black president might mean he will support an effort to award a huge sum to blacks, taken from whites, to absolve the country of its sin of slavery.
All of these issues will combine to produce the most lopsided outcome ever for a presidential election. Probably more one-sided than the election of George Washington.
To his credit, Obama did say he believed OJ murdered his ex-wife and Ron Goldman.
Hey - Paleface female here, in the target "3rd Wave Feminist" generation, just want to point out that skin color and gender don't necessarily indicate who one will vote for. I voted for Obama and so did all of my friends, of all hues, and some of my family. We voted for him because we think he'd make a better president, not because he represents any particular ethnicity or cultural subgroup. No idea about who might have the best chance of being elected out of the three - this election is a ways off, and things have been pretty unpredictable the whole time for everyone.
The real question is, who will keep us safe from people who steal strollers from French bistros?
my guess is that anyone that posts here in support of Jaguar is really Jaguar posting anonymously in support of his/her self
my guess is that anyone that posts here in support of Jaguar is really Jaguar posting anonymously in support of his/her self
It is a fact that Sunday morning church service is one of the most segregated time periods in America. This is changing slowly with the advent of the mega church but most churches in America are segregated along racial lines. I think Obama has explained his relationship with his pastor and it is his right to still attend Trinity. Trinity and other "black" churches prospered because Blacks were literally and legally denied the right to attend white churches. Even right here in NYC as late as the 1950's there were congregations that did not allow Blacks to worship and when they were allowed to worship, they had to sit in the balcony. I respect Obama for not turning his back on someone who has supported him and someone whom he considers family. Clinton on the other hand would have disassociated herself only because it would be politically expedient but disingenuous. Clinton said that we can't pick our family but we can pick our friends. Not really true. She picked a liar and a serial cheater for a husband. She didn't get rid of him.
Our country has yet to elect a women or minority candidate as President. There have been Muslim (Indonesia, Bengladesh, Pakistan), Jewish (Israel) and African (Liberia) countries where women have been elected to lead. In Iraq and Afghanistan women and ethnic minorities make up a larger percentage of their Parliament than they do in this country. Yet we expect other countries to make nice with each other and be inclusive of minorities and women. How hypocritical.
http://www.foundryumc.org/sermons/3_23_2008.htm
"I want to talk for a few minutes about race in America this Easter morning, but I want to be clear that this is only an illustration of a deeper truth. This is not the point but an illustration of the point.
I was feeling depressed about the racial tension in America this past week. At the request of a member, I made a statement this week about the attention the media was giving to some comments by Rev. Jeremiah Wright, whom I have heard speak a number of times. The statement is available on our website and copies are available in our office. I was feeling sort of depressed. When are we ever going to be able to get past the racial divisions that run so deep in the American psyche?
Then suddenly this weekend I moved from fear to joy. I realized that the tension we are experiencing is because the rules are changing. What we are experiencing is the shock of resurrection which always causes within us fear and great joy all mixed up together.
I was the pastor of a primarily African-American congregation for several years in the 1980’s. When I say primarily African-American I mean all but two people in the congregation were African-American. One of the two who was not African-American was married to me."
Unfortunately, we will have another 4 years of "bushism". McCain is the next president, for worse or worse. There is no way this Country will vote for a woman president, even a white woman. Of course, and we all know, there is absolutely no way this Country will vote for a black president.
I hope I am wrong.
As a democrat, I can't vote for Hillary, despite my prior support for Bill. Her lies and failure to disclose tax documents for several prior years are too much. At least Obama is trying to change from the "old-school" politics.
By the way, it is official, TODAY IS THE FIRST OPENING DAY OF POMME DE TERRE. HOURS: 5:30 to 10:30 PM.
anon 8:28 you said...
"There have been Muslim (Indonesia, Bengladesh, Pakistan)..."
A non-muslim would not be permitted a role in the government in those countries.
and:
"...Jewish (Israel)..."
Israel is a democracy, but it is a Jewish state. Hence, given the fact that about 80% of the population is Jewish, it's unlikely a non-Jew would win a top office. However, there is a muslim party.
and:
"...and African (Liberia) countries where women have been elected to lead."
Probably only one, Ellen Sirleaf of Liberia. Meanwhile, most leaders of African nations are corrupt criminals and thugs who rule with abusive force.
and:
"In Iraq and Afghanistan women and ethnic minorities make up a larger percentage of their Parliament than they do in this country."
They are 100% muslim. Still, these efforts are an important start for democracy in a part of the world that has known nothing but brutal oppression for centuries.
and:
"Yet we expect other countries to make nice with each other and be inclusive of minorities and women. How hypocritical."
Maybe it's news to you but women in muslim theocracies have no rights and are little more than chattel. They live oppressed lives in Indonesia, Pakistan and Bangladesh.
By the way, Pakistan and Bangladesh were both part of India until about 1945 when India dumped them. They had become the muslim regions, and like all muslim regions, the residents wanted as little contact as possible with non-muslims. Thus, India decided the best decision was to cut loose both territories. To no one's surprise, both are poor backwards countries, while India is leading the charge into the future.
Meanwhile, it appears you have forgotten that Benazir Bhutto was assassinated only a few months ago by some muslim men who do not like women with power. Moreover, she had been driven from Pakistan a decade ago because she and her husband had looted the country.
Most of the countries you seem to admire are countries that define backwardness and repression. Life in them would be a nightmare for people accustomed to life in the US.
Very good points, Anon 10 PM.
The US has its faults, but people forget that most countries are much more EXclusive and prejudiced than ours, with very little tolerance for even differing opinion such as we have expressed on this blog. There are countries where you cannot even blog or have a web site criticizing the government or policies, or religious ideas.
And lest you think more "progressive countries" are immune: there are plenty of european countries where, though the rights are protected of differences, they are often still discriminated against in societal ways.
I was at PDT last night. It was PACKED!
The food was delicious and the service was very good, especially considering it was the first night. Gary was there and seemed very happy with how it was going. He should be.
Let's hope this is the start of many positive developments for the area.
glad someone went last nite and posted about it ..
how long did you wait for a table? what did you eat?
how much was it?
does it open at 6pm or 5:30pm like the farm? I find it easy to beat the crowd if I'm there at 5:30pm.
just curious
"Israel is a democracy, but it is a Jewish state. Hence, given the fact that about 80% of the population is Jewish, it's unlikely a non-Jew would win a top office. However, there is a muslim party."
Has Israel ever elected a Muslim to lead despite the fact that they have a large Muslim population. No.
"A non-muslim would not be permitted a role in the government in those countries."
Not true. Given the fact that about 80% of the population of those countries are Muslim, it is unlikely that a non-Muslim would be elected to a top office. Despite this. Indonesia has done it twice.
"Meanwhile, most leaders of African nations are corrupt criminals and thugs who rule with abusive force."
Why? Colonialism, Imperialism, Slavery. Disputes fueled by Western governments. The US like it or not has lost respect around the world because many believe that we are corrupt thugs who rule (other countries by proxy) with abusive force.
You 10 PM are a hypocrit. It is clear that you are a racist and that you hate Muslims and African Americans. I have lived in a Muslim country and as a group things for rural uneducated women were bad. Despite thism the women that I got to know still found joy in life and had dreams and many had plans in place to fulfill those dreams. Surprisingly, what we as Westerners wanted for them is not what they necessasarily what they wanted for themselves. The lives of these women were no worse than the lives of the poor rural women that I met when I lived in South America and South Africa both Christian majority countries BTW. I have met too many women right here in this country who are being abused and our courts can't do anything to stop it. We as global citizens have a lot of work to do. The tragedies taking place in other countries still does not excuse the US. Especially because we are the ones who hold ourselves up as a beacon to world of all that is good.
Can the administrators please start a new thread, so I can hear about the restaurant without combing through the posts on racism, class consciousness, and who's lived here longest?
While I appreciate everyone's efforts to spread enlightenment, educate the masses, and validate their own personal worldviews, I'm not sure that posting on this blog is going to solve the types of problems that are under discussion.
However, if more people posted about the restaurant, its menu, or its prices, that might potentially solve one of MY problems - namely, whether I'm going to try this place tonight.
The big problem is exclusionary, parochial, narrow-minded thinking, on more than one side. Indeed, as some have mentioned, creating an "us" and "them" mentality. WTF? This neighborhood is all "us" until you make it otherwise. Me? I'm a New Mexico-born, Jersey Shore and Brooklyn-raised, Ivy-educated white male of jewish/scottish background, raised by a Seven Sisters-educated, substance-abusing single jewish mother who was at times on public assistance (welfare, food stamps) but who cleaned up her act and got a steady gig as a schoolteacher, enabling us to move out of her parents' home in Jersey and into this area 23 years ago. I've lived in Brooklyn on and off since I started high school, first in "Fisk Terrace" (i.e. Flatbush), later in "Kensington" (a/k/a just west of Flatbush), now, after years in Manhattan, am in "Ditmas Park" (a/k/a Flatbush.) My neighborhood and my high school were very racially mixed, and my experiences were mostly positive; forget about Newkirk Ave., I used to hop the train and hang out at the Fulton Mall all the time. The drummer for my band, a rich, Brooklyn-born Jewish kid who lived on Argyle off of Church, was racist as all get-out. He was terrified to even walk on Church Ave.; the rest of us in the band (all white) knew he was a moron. We walked around on Church in the freakin' 80's without any trouble; of course, we actually knew how to *handle* ourselves...we understood this is Brooklyn, not Rye or Montclair. My point? Yes, racism exists...and it's not just "yuppies" who are guilty of it, although plenty are. The difference is that often "native Brooklyn" folks like my drummer pal tended to just out and out VOICE their racism, which was pretty shitty, and believe me, I almost decked him more than once; but there's something a bit sicker and more insidious about the hidden racism that seems to be prevalent among a certain percentage of white newcomers to the area. But, more generally, I do get a feeling from many white new arrivals (and yes, I personally know black, upwardly-mobile newcomers as well, but their experience is different, because race is an actual fact, like it or not) that anything in "Ditmas Park" that does not fit their desires or expectations for a place to live, i.e., it does not bear enough of a resemblance to Park Slope, or Cobble Hill, or even Williamsburg, is seen as an obstacle, as something to be gotten rid of, or at the very least, as something that is to be ignored. This is brought home hard and fast when I watch the people going in and out of The Farm, and then watch the people going in and out of the day care center directly adjacent. I would love to see more new arrivals embracing the existing character, and people, of this neighborhood, instead of thinking about what "low income" apartment building can be bulldozed to make way for a trendy new eatery, or how they can't wait until that hair-braiding salon turns into a pet gym...YA KNOW? We should all -- black, white, asian, latin, middle-eastern (and everyone else - this is the most diverse census tract in the nation, FYI) low, middle, high income -- maybe try to INTEGRATE in the true sense a little more...to just SEE each other and RESPECT each other and actually embrace and appreciate the fact that we're living somewhere with such a tremendous variety of people.
anon 3:30,
you're too moronic to hold up your end of a discussion about the political, social and economic realities of any country in the world.
return to flatbush,
I think you've got it wrong about the meaning of local attitudes.
It seems you've overlooked that fact that there's always competing interests in every neighborhood.
Who cares when someone says a new restaurant should replace an existing nail salon? Generally no one cares.
However, if, in fact, enough people do care, shouldn't someone or some group do what's always been done: Pool some money and take the risk?
A leading problem in this part of Brooklyn is the half-baked zoning laws that permit transmission shops, restaurants, body shops, dacycare centers and residential real estate to abut one another.
Many streets are a hodge-podge of businesses and residences that add up to an unappealing mix.
That's not to say nail salons or hair-braiding shops are undesirable. The public will vote with its collective wallet. If they thrive, they thrive.
Meanwhile, you mentioned the bulldozing of a low-income building to make way for a trendy eatery. Well, not too likely. In fact, I can't think of any examples in our area.
On the other hand, a lot of houses were bulldozed to make way for all the apartment buildings by the Parade Grounds. Large houses once covered much of the area between Church and Prospect Park. As you know, those houses are gone.
Fortunately, the mayor understands how much the city needs to increase its population of citizens who can get by without the assistance of tax-payer supported social programs.
It's very simple. With more people able to pay their own bills, it's far easier for the city to pay its bills.
You said the drummer in your band was a racist. What's become of him?
What was your crime experience? Anything bad happen to you, your friends or family?
Meanwhile, you referenced Park Slope and Cobble Hill, both of which went through a troubled period in the 1960s and 70s. Crime was high and residents of these neighborhoods were leaving for the suburbs, joining the city's outgoing tide of white flight.
But the lure of big row-houses at low prices eventually turned the tide back into these neighborhoods. The same force that brought the latest residents to the Ditmas area.
Does some of this shift rub some people the wrong way? Sure. So what! Go to a Planning & Zoning meeting in any homogeneous suburb and you'll find people ready to commit murder over rules on yard maintenance.
pucyuco, 3:30 made sense to me.
This may not make sense to you though but you better take head.
The revolution will not be televised.
midwoodie said: "That's not to say nail salons or hair-braiding shops are undesirable. The public will vote with its collective wallet. If they thrive, they thrive."
Really? I bet the majority of these nail salons or hair-braiding shops got small business loans based on the fact that they were either a minority or a woman or both.
So, it's not the collective wallets of the neighborhood that keeps them afloat but the racist/sexist policies of the US government.
It's not easy to get a small business loan, despite the race or sex of the applicant. HSBC is one of the top providers of small business loans, but the business must show that it will be profitable. Also, some loans can be as high as $50K, and as low as $5K. In any event, if the business does not make money, it will shut down, unless the owner has money to meet the overhead.
Also, if a person gets a business loan, repayment begins the following month. It often takes a while for a business to become profitable, so that loan money is frequently used up in overhead before profit rolls in. That is when the business owner runs to family and friends for financial support.
Granted, it may not be the "collective wallets" keeping the businesses afloat, but it's definitely not U.S. Government policy. Once they give loans they don't give more, especially if there is problems repaying the first loan.
So, I hope you're saying loans shouldn't be made eitehr more or less available on on's ethnicity or sexuality?
Just checking.
Generous backing may keep the doors of some businesses open after it's apparent the customer base will never reach the level needed to support the operations. But those businesses will close, eventually. No business gets a lifetime handout from a lender, whether the lender is a bank or the government.
Meanwhile, the cable TV business posted huge losses for 10 years before turning profitable. But the money came from willing investors.
The same is true for cell phone companies. Most of them lost billions over many years before the industry began earning slim profits.
Moreover, American car-makers are still losing billions and will continue to do so unless expenses drop and revenues rise.
It's a fact of life in the supermarket business that stores must be renovated every five years or so. Associated on Cortelyou just threw in the towel. The Flatbush Food Co-op wants to dominate the local food business.
Can the Co-op manage? Will the new restaurant thrive? Let's hope both prosper. But both represent financial risks taken by the owners.
One way to increase the likelihood of the success for local businesses is to support the expansion of residential real estate.
More peoople, more business.
I'm hoping to see an apartment building rise on the corner of Newkird and Marlborough, on the edge of Newkirk Plaza where the old repair joint is. Looks like a parking lot these days.
does anybody know the plans for that parking lot on newkirk plaza? it looks like it has sold -- the for sale sign went up, and then it went down.
i suppose an apartment building would be better than a parking lot, but i hope it wouldn't be 6 stories high. that would overwhelm that spot.
I agree, it's to small for an apartment building. However, I think a book store would be great, w/a cafe inside.
if only!! somehow i don't imagine someone purchased that lot to build a bookstore, but still, it's a nice thought...
Bookstore? On the edge of Newkirk Plaza? Not a chance.
Nice thought, however. Maybe a courageous soul could open a used-book store temporarily in the space formerly occupied by Cha's next to Almac Hardware.
Bookstores in NY City seem to do only one thing: go out of business.
There were used bookstores all over for years. But these days, it's the Strand, various thrift stores, and the lone new one, Babbo's in Windsor Terrace.
Freebird down on Columbia Street by Red Hook has been closed my last few trips to the area. There is the place on Montague Street and Court Street Books.
The best place is probably Housing Works Used Bookstore and Cafe on Crosby Street. But that place has the city government for a benefactor.
There's no getting away from the fact that bookstores are going away like family farms.
7:23,
What business do you think will succeed in that location?
There was also a bookstore on Cortelyou- Mostly Books. They clsoed within months of Barnes & Nobles opening in Park Slope. I must admit that I did frequent Mostly Books but when B&N opened, I'd go there instead. I would like to see a Habitat for Humanity project of affordable 4-5 story condo's with retail space or community meeting space on the ground floor.
7:33, you asked:
What business would succeed in the lot on the corner of Newkirk and Marlborough?
I really don't know if there's a commercial business suited to succeed in a changing neighborhood populated by an extraordinarily wide range of people types.
It seems there are too few people of each segment to support a line of business different from those already in Newkirk Plaza.
I'm sure it's possible to run a better diner than Pablo's and attract a wider range of customers. But can such a business survive if the landlords are raising rents ahead of actual business gains? Hard to say.
The card store somehow squeaks by. But I don't know what magic enables this. The place needs renovation, however there's no assurance the effort would increase sales.
It seems to me the best bet is to package the card store with the lot behind it and build a biggest apartment building possible on that corner. Improving the neighborhood is best accomplished by increasing the population of people who need to hustle off to where the B and Q trains go.
Midwoodie: While obviously I believe I'm correct in my interpretation, I'll give you that there's no way to *prove* that, since it is an interpretation, and while based on observation, it does involve a fair amount of intuiting, which is, of course, subjective. Nonetheless, people often enough intuit accurate information. My comments about eateries and hair salons were not meant to point out specific occurrences about things that have actually already happened, but rather, to state what I imagine certain individuals want or think...slippery turf, maybe, but when a "vibe" or a feeling is extremely persistent, it often pays to give it some heed, especially when one has gotten similar feedback from others. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine who grew up in the Gowanus Projects, who has lived in Clinton Hill for 35 years, and who has been a coop owner in Clinton Hill for 20 years. She has expressed very similar thoughts and feelings to me, and yes, of course, it's very tricky to interpret "attitude"; nonetheless, such interpretations often contain a fair amount of truth. We both agree that in many "gentrifying" neighborhoods, it seems to us that a certain percentage (by no means all) of newer arrivals look at the area as some sort of tabula rasa, a lump of clay to be sculpted to their own needs, as if the people who've lived there for decades, and the businesses that serve them, either don't exist or don't matter. Again, (allowing that this is highly subjective, but also pointing out that it's a pervasive sense felt by a number of individuals and discussed at length, thus may likely contain considerably validity) there seems to be no willingness to engage with what already exists, no desire to actually assimilate, but instead, to come in from outside and then go about changing things to suit *their* needs, *their* wants, *their* desires, without considering any one else. I half-jokingly quipped to my friend that some of these people honestly seem to have an attitude not unlike the conquistadors upon landing in North America - seeing nothing but a bunch of resources to be exploited, if only the people who happened to already have been there for millenia could be just be gotten out of the picture (but dont' worry, that single mother of four will find a "nice" apartment on Albany Avenue at twice the rent she's currently paying, and so what if her commute time is doubled). There's really no point in a a "debate" about this, because, again, it is so subjective. But I think most people reading this will nonetheless know what I'm talking about, whichever "side" they believe themselves to be on. As for my racist bandmate (seriously, the "n" word was known to cross his lips on more than one occasion, among other comments)...he died of a coke overdose his freshman year in college...I guess his judgment did not improve. My crime experience? The only time I was mugged was on the Jersey shore, (by a white guy, incidentally). The only time my home was broken into was in Park Slope. My mother taught in Harlem, Sunset Park, Bed Stuy for decades and was never a crime victim, and generally was treated well in those areas. One final thing: it's all well and good to talk about "how much the city needs to increase its population of citizens who can get by without the assistance of tax-payer supported social programs," and state that "With more people able to pay their own bills, it's far easier for the city to pay its bills." But I fail to see how gentrifying western Flatbush accomplishes this. That doesn't increase anything, it simply displaces poorer people (the vast majority of whom are working and not, in fact, being supported by "taxpayer-supported social programs") in favor of richer people...and what happens to those poorer people? Do they leave NYC or simply evaporate? Of course not...they're simply "out of sight" for the richer people...and thus, apparently, "out of mind"...which is exactly the problem I'm talking about. The Mayor, however, is not just Mayor of Ditmas Park, and so it will still be *his* problem; it's just my belief that it's always *everyone's* problem.
Anonymous 3/28 8:03pm, I really like your affordable housing idea!
There is a building on corner of Flatbush and I think Ave D or it might be Foster, that is almost complete. It is an affordable housing rental with services and a community room on-site. Most of the units have been set aside for the disabled and elderly. The building has those fedder's boxes but the designer camoflaged them with decorative grates. I didn't think Flatbush avenue would be a great location for this type of project but when there is no other alternative, this is a godsend to people in need of the housing. Has a Habitat for Humanity project ever been done in Flatbush?
10:59,
I'm familiar with that building. If you travel on Newkirk, as you approach Flatbush and cross-over, this building will be to your left, on the other side of Flatbush where traffic is headed to Empire Blvd.. The building looks great, and it does not appear to be the cheap construction that I'v seen.
return to flatbush,
You make some good points, but putting everything in one paragraph strains the eyes. The readability of your comments would increase if you broke them into paragraphs.
Anyway, I'm sure if you polled everyone going into each business in the neighborhood you would find more than one person supporting the notion of knocking down almost every building to replace it with one that matches their desires.
I'm sure there are people who want more and better 99-cent stores. I was on Church Avenue earlier and the sidewalks outside Bobby's were jammed and the store was busy. In fact, the sidewalks on both sides of Church were jammed from Stratford to Flatbush Ave and beyond.
Meanwhile, as you mentioned, new arrivals are about as sympathetic to the state in which they found the neighborhood as Europeans landing in the New World.
Sounds good to me. New York City has been a collection of ethnic neighborhoods since Peter Stuyvesant was in charge. But the city has eased into a new phase in recent decades, as the ethnic neighborhood barriers began to disappear.
It seems you were lucky in the crime department. My father-in-law, a doctor who lived in Park Slope for 45 years, was robbed twice at gunpoint, once at a gas station on 4th Avenue and once outside his office in the Williamsburg Bank Building. Meanwhile, I've been attacked by thugs, had my place burglarized, cars broken into, an a gun in my face. Fortunately, no serious injuries.
Sorry about your drummer. I've lost friends to drugs too, some by way of overdosing and a couple others from gunshots.
You said --- it's all well and good to talk about "how much the city needs to increase its population of citizens who can get by without the assistance of tax-payer supported social programs," and state that "With more people able to pay their own bills, it's far easier for the city to pay its bills." But I fail to see how gentrifying western Flatbush accomplishes this...
Yes, gentrifying part of Flatbush helps. People with more money pay the bills for people with less money. It's that simple.
If you establish policies that increase financial pressure on people with money, they will do what they've always done -- leave the neighborhood. On the other hand, if you increase incentives for well-off people to stick around, they will. And by sticking around, they pay the bills for others.
If you disagree, think about NYC as a city of 8 million residents living in public housing and depending on food stamps. The city would be a sewer. It was bad enough in the 70s and 80s, when a lot of people did leave the Ditmas area, as well as every other neighborhood in the city.
By the way, NY City would benefit a lot from limiting the Rent Stablization program. It is a sham that grants about 99% of its benefits to whites living in valuable Manhattan real estate for a song. For years I paid $350 a month to live on the Upper East Side on East 82nd.
A fair program would grant rental benefits to the original lease-holder and no one else. No passing the lease to kids, no adding a new spouse to the lease. Then the city would have added funds to supply services to people who truly need them.
Midwoodie,
"...[P]utting everything in one paragraph strains the eyes. The readability of your comments would increase if you broke them into paragraphs."
This is a blog, not a writing class. I'm curious, do you wear glasses or contacts? (I don't, but given my parents will when I get older.)
Some people speak better than others, and some write better than others. If "RTF" was mailing a letter or submitting a report, that's one thing. But he's posting on a BLOG! Some posters review their text before they post it, and some don't. Your post is written well but that's YOU. I don't think you should impose your ability on others. We were all instructed on how to write in grade school.
Midwoodie,
I just saw an economist on CNN who said that the poor and middle class pay a larger portion of their income for taxes and pay more for general goods and services than do the wealthy. I have no doubt that we need people with an income to support the services in our city, but while we resent the poor for being poor, which may well be due to bad decisions on their part (dropping out of school, drug abuse, etc...,) we bail out corporations who make bad decisions and don't think of them as welfare cheats.
anon 12:10...
Breaking long posts into paragraphs every five or eight lines lets readers appreciate the content with greater ease.
Hitting the "enter" key isn't any harder than hitting another key.
To answer your question, I wear glasses.
anon 5:39...
A gallon of milk is around $4 a gallon, depending on where you shop. Four dollars is a bigger chunk of a low-earner's paycheck than a high earner.
However, the "poor" do not pay taxes and usually receive food stamps, Medicaid services, and may well receive some form of housing subsidy.
For a young single woman with a child, the value of all the subsidies may add up to almost $20,000 a year.
As far as your assertion about bailing out corporations goes, I think you assume that "bailout" means free money is given to corporations with no expectation of repayment. It's unlikely you can give an example of this.
Bear Stearns, for instance, was not "bailed out."
Bear Steans is about to become JP Morgan. And 7,000 Bear Stearns employees -- half the firm -- will probably lose their jobs. I don't think that's anyone's idea of a "bail-out."
Think of it this way. Suppose you borrowed 95% of the purchase price for your house and lived in it for three years before finding yourself unable to continue paying your mortgage. Suppose the value of your home dipped a little and your equity stake was zero.
If you were unable to pay your mortgage and the bank decided to help you by letting you skip a year's worth of payments and then also unilaterally reduced your debt, I would call that a bail-out.
If that happened, the bank would have to reflect its gift to you on its income statement and balance sheet.
On the other hand, if you lost ownership of your house through default and foreclosure, were evicted and the bank took steps to sell it, would you feel bailed out? Not likely.
That's how it went at Bear Stearns. There is no more Bear and the value of the company is gone, and soon half the employees will go too.
That's not a bail out. That's a corporate foreclosure and forced liquidation.
However, the way it looks now, the Treasury will book a profit on any mortgage securities it holds as a result of its program to re-start trading in the mortgage market.
Chrysler was not "bailed out" either. It was given LOANS by the government. The loans were repaid. However, the government loaned money to Chrysler when no other lenders would take the risk.
That aside, as I said, there is more to give to people with less when there are more people with more to pay the bills for social programs.
The money has to come from somewhere.
Medicaid costs about $5,000 a year per person in the program.
PLEASE READ:
I went to the Bistro with my wife last night. We left the restaurant at around 10, turned the corner onto Foster Avenue and we were accosted by three men in their early twenties.. one of them brandishing a knife. They demanded my wallet and her chain. She was screaming.
After about four hours of dealing with the police and reading up on statistics.. this event is only now setting in.
I googled the restaurant and found this blog. Regarding the above debate concerning socio-economics.. I don't know where I stand. However, I do know my interests and those of my family.. they obviously contradict those of this neighborhood.
Not going to take the ride out to the Bistro any time soon.
bellows (dot) walter (at) gmail (dot) com
"...We left the restaurant at around 10, turned the corner onto Foster Avenue and we were accosted by three men in their early twenties."
So this happened at Argyle and Foster, on Foster?
"Not going to take the ride out to the Bistro any time soon."
Did they ride the subway and if so why did they walk to Foster?
I honestly don't know what you are getting at with your questions. Please call the precinct for a verification if you will. Honestly, I really don't need this.
bellows.walter@gmail.com
8:16,
THANK GOD YOU AND YOUR WIFE WERE NOT HURT - PHYSICALLY.
HOPEFULLY THE CRIMINALS WILL BE ARRESTED AND SENT TO PRISON.
I’m glad you weren’t hurt.
The questions were asked so everyone can understand what happened and why.
I doubt anyone who knows the neighborhood would have walked down Argyle to Foster to get on the subway or to a parked car that required the same path.
If you read this blog/thread you could have deduced that Pomme de Terre is a pioneer on the street.
How do you tell the pioneers? By the arrows in their backs.
Not a joke. A reality that the neighbors know how to maneuver.
Look back over this thread. There was a shooting in front of the restaurant just a couple of weeks before it opened. The corner was a drug store. With the restaurant it is not but it was and some dealers are not happy about that.
Park Slope went through this and continues to have criminals come into their area knowing moneyed people are leaving restaurants. We are lucky that the 70th is very attentive but we have to look out for ourselves.
The restaurant is wonderful, the area is still suspect.
What were you doing walking to Foster?
IMO – You put yourself and your wife in jeopardy.
If you do not have any more street sense eat in Brook. Hgts. or in Manhattan.
I don't think i'll be going back anytime soon. It doesn't make sense to me putting that restaurant in a place like this. No sense.
bellows.walter@gmail.com
9:51,
I moved into the area in '02. I had to pass the location of PDT when it housed the bodega. Granted, the bodega was not properly maintained (compared to other bodegas) and there were young people hanging out. However, when I moved to the nabe, there was no drugs being sold inside or outside of that bodega. Before arriving in DP, I lived in a few nabe's where drugs were sold.
PDT now has their menu up on their website:
http://pdtny.com/pdf/pdt_menu.pdf
To: bellows.walter@gmail.com,
I'm genuinely sorry you and your wife had such a bad experience. I live a few blocks from the restaurant, and like a lot of other readers of this blog, am always concerned when I hear about crime in my area.
However, I am thrilled to have a nice, tablecloth restaurant to enjoy near my home. Because this is my home, I take issue that you wonder why they would put a restaurant "in a place like this". If you feel it's such a ghetto, there is no need for you to come back - will make it easier for me to get a table at PDT.
I have lived in Ditmas Park for almost 30 years. I hate when new folks move into the nabe and try to talk so much smack... why don't you leave??? DP is the sweetest placein Brooklyn to live. It is safe. I have heard things happen but I never personally seen anyone doing anything violent. Usually folks come from outside of NY freak out at the idea that not everyone looks like them. GO back home it would make DP a better place for everyone else. Darn negaholics!
I am black and grew up on Argyle between Bev. and Cortelyou for 17 years. People were always racists and probably always will be. People refused to believed WE owned that house. Did that me us a high income family? Our bank accounts said so but not in the eyes of our neighbors. There were kids who could'nt play with me. I was teased relentlessly in PS 139. So it is not all the "Low Class" people who commit the crimes.
I cant tell you how many times we found white, black and Spanish people trolling the property. There are SO many other issues other than skin color. Even dogs are more evolved to know one color means nothing. you cant point out instances in the Bible, Torah or Koran where a person was described and prejudged by their skin color alone. It is sad to see what has become of us humans. Our experiences are what make us individually unique.
Thanks goodness I grew up smart enough to spot out the liberal posers in the nabe.
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