I was walking around yesterday and noticed that a T-Mobile dealer has moved in with the real estate agent next to the nonexistent Flower shop next to the Mexican bakery on the last block before CIA and that on the corner of CIA where the Allstate was now looks like we'll have a place to fix our Apple computers. I can't believe I did not have my camera with me (what kind of blogger am I?!) ... I'll try to take some tomorrow. I will also take a picture of Cortelyou between Argyle and CIA - the 3 blocks without a single traffic light! (That will be a longer post ...)
By the way - heard rumors that the car lot next to Newkirk Plaza was finally sold? Anyone in the know?
delays
-
i sit here, waiting for a delayed flight in the new MUTLI-SCREENED,
EXTREMELY LOUD jetblue termimal. traveling alone on this portion of the
flight, i arri...
5 hours ago
Posts
63 Comments:
talking about miscellany: that old dry cleaner space across from Vox Pop is apparently going to become Natural Frontier's Organic Cafe and Juice Bar. Um... how many cafes do we need here? Can we get a lil more diversity in stores?
I want a fish market! Anything on anybody else's wish list?
a bookstore!?!?!
Stationery. I'd love to be able to buy printer paper, cartridges, etc. locally.
i'd be happy with a bank or a gym or a bookstore; please NOT another organic something or other!
What I would love to see most would be a couple of affordable but decent quality clothing shops - nothing fancy, just someplace to shop for jeans, jackets, etc. A local gym would be a great addition as well.
There actually is a fish market on Newkirk btwn E15th & 16th... it's ok, sometimes it scares me... a really nice one would be great, I agree.
Or a great spice/cheese/gormet shop.
A performance/gallery/bar space...or what about a just a plain old, ordinary bar? Maybe one that offers a few snacks...
but really just a plain old bar to kick back and meet pals and make pals in would be pretty sweet.
Um - Natural Frontier opened three months ago with a juice bar close to Vox Pop. Are you saying they are taking on a second space? Seems odd as they already have a big space.
Yes a bar would be fun. as long as it has a pool table and maybe (wishful thinking) SKEEBALL!!!!
we could start a brooklyn skee ball leauge.
www.brewskeeball.com
good fun.
YES!! Fresh fish market!!! How sad I have to still go to Park Slope for reliable fish. Even their Korean delis have better fish than anyplace around here!
11:18:
Yep. Take a look at the new awning across from Vox Pop. Says Natural Frontier Organic Cafe and Juice Bar.
Is anyone aware of a small store front for rent on Cortelyou Road? I am interested in opening a small funky gift shop.
I agree with all of the bar wishers.
I think someone had at one point suggested a co-op bar. Is there any interest in such a thing? I figure it would work like any co-op, pay for membership and/or commit to working a certain number of hours per week or month.
Honestly, I don't know how much time I'd have to put into organizing such a thing, but it could work, no?
Coop bar is a great idea and I would be very much interested in something like that but I think the best space for it -- the old Cornerstone place -- might be unattainable. I am also not 100% clear about how a coop bar would work. Would it be like one of those old fashioned Italian and Eastern European social clubs for members only or would it just have a large group of owners sharing the work but open to the public? The latter being preferred obviously.
Anyway, I just want a normal bar with a few good beers on tap and some bar food and most importantly a subscription to Setanta sports so that there is a decent place in the neighborhood to watch some real European football.
We just bought a place near Newkirk and would love a great bar, a place to grab a drink after the subway ride home, maybe watch a ballgame, grab a bite. A neighborhood watering hole would be perfect
Yes - a bar with some minimal bar food - PLEASE!!!!! I think getting a liquor license for the coop bar might be a tad difficult. I personally believe Sander should throw in the towel on the coffee/politics thing and turn his space into an old school bar. He clearly already has the liquor license, as he serves beer and his coffee bar wouldn't be too hard to turn into a real bar. I think his profits would shoot through the roof. Get a good jukebox, two TVs with sports channels, dimmer lighting, a few tables with comfy chairs, throw some peanut shells on the ground and he is good to go. That outdoor seating space he has in the front would also be sweet place to grab a weiss beer and watch the world go by in the warmer months.
does anyone know if the place where the coop is leaving is already spoken for. That could be a good bar space
Yes, Vox Pop - a beer/barbeque joint with newspapers and sawdust on the floor!
Me too, me too! I'm constantly tempted to go into the Farm late at night, but it's so expensive. Some friends and I are interested in darkening Visions sometime, on the corner of CIA and Cortelyou, if anyone's game..EFS
omg--its another round of "I wanna, I wanna, I wanna. . . gimme, gimme, gimme." Don't we ever get bored with this monotony.
What do people think of the T-Mobile moving in? I think it's a step up from the crummy real estate office that was there before. Not that I want a ton of cell phone stores on Cortelyou, but there are a few in the Slope, and I actually trekked over there when I had to get my new phone. So maybe this is one of those "not so fancy" businesses that will manage to serve the entire community.
We had a bank once where the laundry now operates on E 16th. I think it was a Chemical that closed when Chemical became Chase or it was a Manufacturers Hanover that closed when they became Chemical. At any rate, another bank would be welcome.
ANY bank on cortelyou would be nice.
as for the cell phone place.. it's a step up from a mortgage place, but authorized phone resellers are just as ubiquitous as those mortgage places. at least it's an improvement, but i'd prefer if it were a "real" t-mobile store.
Ack! It's not a real T-Mobile outfit. Mea culpa. And far less enthusiasm
I have inside information that a person who owns a very popular restaurant/bar in Park Slope is seriously negotiating with the owner of the Cornerstone. He is not planning on having a kitchen but will probably offer sandwiches....he has many good ideas.
Keep your fingers crossed.
A co-op bar may sound like a good idea, but the chief problem undoubtedly lies with the liquor license.
A bar might have many owners/investors, but the liquor licensing is pretty sticky stuff.
On the other hand, a co-op bar would have a lot in common with private drinking establishments like V.F.W.s
There is likely to be an approved list of organizations able to operate in that manner.
Someone mentioned Visions. It's a strange place. It strikes me that more is going on there than sales of liquor.
Unfortunately, the best location for a bar on Cortelyou is probably the site of the former Cornerstone. But crazy landlords can ruin a good thing.
However, the former Flatbush Food Co-op site would fill the bill.
A few posters mentioned a desire to see a bookstore open on Cortelyou.
How about a used bookstore? A mix of used and new books?
Any fans of the Housing Works Used Bookstore Cafe on Crosby Street in Manhattan here?
A bar would be super. Really super. But it would be especially super (super duper)if it didn't emanate some kind of hipster/yuppie/gentrifiers' den-of-iniquity vibe and thus be patronized by that same crowd.
There needs to be more inclusive social space (commercial).
I get 2:17's gripe about the "I wanna, I wanna..." posts that plague these blogs covering neighborhoods undergoing changes (demographic, economic, aesthetic, zoning, etc...) It gets ridiculous. From the posts here or on the PLG or Kensington and other similar neighborhood blogs, it's seems there are, like, two B'kyln neighborhoods that all the others should strive to emulate (e.g. Park Slope and Caroll Gardens).
How about a new vision for these newly transforming neighborhoods? How about not trying to recreate 5th ave or Smith Street on Cortelyou Road?
Also, we should relieve some of the pressure from the few restaurant/cafes in the area (Vox Pop, the Farm, Picket Fence, Conn. Muff.) who it seems everyone looks to to support their needs.
So with all due respect, screw the idea for Vox Pop as a bar (which they should totally do, by the way in addition to the cafe thing). How about a DIFFERENT locale? Give the Vox Pop peeps a break.
And while I hear 2:17's point about all the entitled whining, I also think there needs to be more stuff, and not just on Cortelyou.
There was previously a bookstore "mostly Books" on Cortelyou. It carried a wide selection and hosted book club meetings and other small events. They went out of business shortly after Barnes and Noble in PS opened.
what is a hipster/yuppie/gentrifiers den of iniquity. Does that mean people who have bought or rented in this hood for five years or less are not welcome at the bar you imagine?
No, I meant that a bar or other gathering place should be welcoming to all groups.
I'm advocating for a real neighborhood bar, not a cool hipster joint, that would feel inviting to many types of folks, not just a select crowd.
DitP is so varied, that the kind of inclusivity I'm suggesting might be achievable.
A good bodega where local youth can hang out--one with lottery tickets.
I want a cool hipster joint that is dog friendly and makes un-hip people feel uncomfortable. only hot young ladies in revealing outfits would be permitted to work there.
I'm the one who suggested that Vox Pop become a bar and I agree with you 9:50 PM, it would be better to have a new space open up instead. I'm just desperate and sick of waiting for the crazy guy at the cornerstone to sell the building so someone will rent the space. I am also not holding my breath for the coop to move across the street and open that space up to a new business, as I see very little sign of movement. Finally, although I don't agree with their politics in many instances, I like Sander and Holly and I think their current business is going to take a big hit from CT Muffin. On the other hand, the neighborhood seems to be screaming for a laid back neighborhood bar, perhaps with BBQ or minimal bar food for everyone (even non-hipsters) to enjoy. I'm a want to be hipster and love The Farm, but sometimes I just want to grab a beer and some greasy food and watch sports.
In full violation of my earlier statement that DitP try to not recreate Park Slope's 5th ave. scene, a bar along the lines of the Park Slope Ale House (6th Ave, actually) is what I'm thinking of.
It's a no-frills bar and grill with a corner T.V. tuned to sporting events or news. Affordable-ish. Low-key. Decidedly unchic outdoor tables. I think there's pool table downstairs. Attracts a range of people. Even families hang out there and have a beer while the kid naps in the stroller.
let's face it... if this area turned into a fraction of park slope is now, we'd all be happy. not saying full fledged stroller terrors and influx of hipsters (although i really don't think hipster when i think park slope), but i'd be surprised to hear people complain if cortelyou suddenly had an upspring of a quality: bar, thai, sushi, funky accessories/clothing, mom and pop bookstore, fun card shop, etc.
come on.. we all know that would bring value and improvements much needed in the area. those decrying these changes always have newkirk plaza.
but... i think in the end, until the economy turns there's not going to be a lot of changes regardless how much people want it.
Absolutely, 11:03. And there's nothing wrong with reproducing some features of particular neighborhoods-a few bookstores, a few food joints, a few bars.
But it would be cool if Ditmas Park created their own vibe fashioned around the needs and desires and visions of its residents, rather than reflecting the development patterns of other areas in Brooklyn.
You're probably right about the effects of impending economic downturn on changes in the area; we might have to wait a while.
But if I had the money, I'd set up a bar and a performance/gallery space that also functioned as a community meeting place. A place to dance, play music, chat, plan, create, and organize.
What exactly is a hipster? Whatever a hipster is, I would like a bar where all people could go on Saturday and Sunday mornings to watch real European football.
Just want to add my two cents. This is a bit off the topic (Cortelyou Rd.) but still about Ditmas Park. Mamma Lucia's is a great little Italian restaurant on the corner of Foster Ave. & E. 17th St. (1701 Foster Ave.). It's a ten minute walk from Cortelyou and the good food is worth it.
a bar with a pool table and a strippers pole for when things get rowdy!
It's hard to find a bar that beats the Brooklyn Inn on the corner of Bergen and Hoyt.
what a surprise... a shady looking mortgage lending place plays quick change artist into a cell phone reseller in the wake of america's mortgage lending crisis.
it must be owned by the same people who have that corner store on CIA: once a real estate office, then a jackson hewitt tax preparation spot, and now a computer repair office???
please. get a real long term renter who really wants to make a difference in this neighborhood, rather than renting it out to your own on the cheap so that they can keep making bankruptcy claims.
My definition of hipster: usually living in williamsburg, with parents who buy them million dollar apartments while they pretend to have no money by delivering pizza with a 'tude in their skinny jeans and androgynous style.
The park sloper is more professional workers, mostly families. I know a lot of people complain about sloper attitudes, but I rather have their type than the williamsburg type. they are more responsible and encourage a good mix of families, singles, professionals, and fresh out of college. yeah they're noisy but their noise is what got that area the amenities they have and which many up and coming hoods look to. (Not look up to , necessarily).
I don't think people who use the park slope model really want all the worst aspects... they just want that community and convenience of stores and living. It goes without saying, any neighborhood should develop in conjunction with the flavor of that area.
Going back the original post, does anyone know anything about the car lot on Newkirk being sold?
Couldn't agree more, Bar Stool:
Brooklyn Inn is my favorite bar in Brooklyn.
So, discovering our neighborhood’s niche and setting our selves apart from the slope and other parts of Brooklyn is something to be contemplated. I think we might have a future in being known for our politics and humanity.
Vox Pop (according to the NY Times) is leading the “free trade revolution”; perhaps this is our calling as a community. Creating a business community collectively working towards being socially conscious economically and environmentally.
Organic foods, fair trade, public forums and other attributes in this vein…
The Brooklyn Inn was taken over earlier this year by the owners of my favorite Manhattan mini-chain of bars: XOU, COU and The Magician. I learned this recently during one of my monthly visits home and immediately made a pilgrimage. It instantly moved Great Lakes down from the top spot on my list of favorite Brooklyn bars.
Would love for a similar-type place anywhere in or near Ditmas Park or Kensington. Co-op bar or not.
Btw, my first job was at a midwest V.F.W.--I was the Friday night bar-back from the ages of 13-16. And yes, it was legal.
I have heard old timers here talking about the bookstore on Cortelyou. Big objection was that they didn't "discount" the merchandise. They rather travel elsewhere to spend less money.
I think a different type of resident is moving in. One who is used to the conveniences of Park Slope, or more to the point, Manhattan, and who can and will pay for the convenience of local shopping.
That said, I personally would be equally happy to have a used bookstore. I loved the kids bookstore in Park Slope on 7th that closed. I'd also love to see (or perhaps open) a high end, second hand kids clothing store.
I have posted this many times, and will do so again. A bar in the Corenrstone space is doomed without food. This neighborhood doesn't have enough 20 somethings to support a flourishing bar scene. Not all, but most people buying houses and coops in the neighborhood have young children. And nobody wants to pay a babysitter so they can go out a grab a drink. However, many parents would be thrilled to feed the kids a burger while they sample what's on tap. Food and a family friendly atmosphere is the only way a bar will survive, even thrive, on Cortelyou Road. The Park Slope Ale House model is the only realistic way to go. The kitchen space at the Cornerstone is there... a new owner would be an idiot, or just have no understanding of neighborhood demographics, if they chose to ignore it.
Also, I think a lot of local residents are interested in opening up local businesses. In fact, I know this for a fact. However, these people are not super wealthy, have limited experience, and often have young families, so making the leap is something they don't take lightly. Takes a lot of planning and courage. Kudos to Sander and Gilbert and others who have taken the plunge. Let's keep supporting them, offering helpful advice, and working together to keep our comminity vibrant and thriving.
"This neighborhood doesn't have enough 20 something’s to support a flourishing bar scene. Not all, but most people buying houses and coops in the neighborhood have young children. And nobody wants to pay a babysitter so they can go out a grab a drink."
I think you're under a misimpression. There actually are quite a number of twenty something’s in the area, we simple still hang out in Manhattan for lack of a better place close to home! I was at the Farm last night. The rush hit around 8:30 and I've never seen the place so packed!!! I almost witnessed a grandpa get knocked of his rocker for lack of space to move in AND I literally only saw maybe 2 babies in sight... I understand parents want a place to bring children, but that is not the only ticket to making a surviving establishment. I'm almost (haha) willing to put my money where my mouth is on that one!
How about a tapas bar?
With a live DJ...
how about an *anything* bar with live MUSIC? that aspect of the Cornerstone is much missed, and there are plenty of musicians in the area who would love a local spot to play.
I think 11:08 is speaking for him/herself. i think there are plenty of 20 (and 30-somethings) who would like a place to hang. we simply go elsewhere (park slope, manhattan).
I'm sure if you check out the demographics, the number of families with children far outnumbers the singletons with bar hopping habits. I'm not saying I don't want more 20 somethings here, btw. Great for the economy. Work odd hours, hand out in coffee shops during the day spending money. We need more of them and they're very welcome. But if they were here already there would be an establishment serving their needs. I have no doubt.
Also, people with little kids tend not to drag them out much after 8:30...
Truth is a bar has to cater to singletons AND families here to survive. Hence, you need food. You need th PS Ale House model.
If anyone wants to open a bar here and lose their shirt, ignore the fact that 75 percent of your potential customer base is composed of young families. Serve food.
I live near the Cornerstone and they has a serious noise issue when there was loud music. Fine if you liked the bluegrass night, which I did, but not so great if the music wasn't to your taste and blaring away at 2 in the morning.
New owner would have to soundproof. Lots of calls to 411 in the past.
The Cornerstone failed for many reasons. Landlord problems for one.
But the music was often a deterrent. Too much amateur hour and too much volume. Too little talent.
No food, too. Lousy bartenders. Poor finances always cause owners to cut back on the free drinks. That kills any chance of warm and friendly feelings developing between patrons and bar.
I vote for a GOOD tapas bar. a little to nosh and a little (or lot) to drink. All things in DitPa doesn't need to cater to families. You got Vox Pop, Belle and Maxie, The Farm, Picket Fence... the playground, etc. What's ONE lil good bar???
I do think a smart business in Ditmas Park DOES have to cater to families. That's the vast majority of their potential customer base. Doesn't have to be a business that caters to them exclusively, like a kids clothing store or whatever, but a business that acknowledges their presence and makes concessions to them. Such as the Park Slope Ale House model, which seems to serve a broad cusomer base quite succesfully. Sports on the tube. 20 somethings at the bar. Families with kids eating Veggie Burgers. Otherwise the business will fail. New businesses can't afford to ignore the very demographic that's here and has the cash to blow regularly in their establishment.
Wow. Someone is really really really pushing the "any business to survive here HAS to cater to familes" bit at every moment. Sorry. I disagree.
Veggie burgers!!!! My kids hate veggie burgers. "Gie me meat and we shall eat and so the lord be thankit."
If you think you can open a business and have it survive without digging into the pockets of young families, go for it. I'm just trying to save you from losing your shirt. Show me one new business that's thriving which doesn't serve families in some way.
If Cornerstone had a kitchen (and why it didn't is a very sad story) it may well have survived, despite the crappy landlord.
OK turkey burgers then. Whatever.
the Cornerstone Bar has a lot of history, good and bad, but it's a great location, and anybody with experience, some cash, and half a brain can make it into a thriving business.
I don't agree with the "must cater to families" comments either, but it has to be all inclusive, not a Williamsburg type hipster joint. How hard can that be ?
I also agree that the landlord was put in a bad position, since the previous owner, Jerry, never had enough money to get the bar off the ground from the get go. He unfortunately struggled with a lot of issues, and didn't have enough time/resources to take care of Cornerstone. That's why it failed. Does anyone know what became of him, where he is working now ? He was a great guy.
....and, no tv's please. I'd prefer real people and real communication in a bar. Also, sports bars don't attract women, think about it....too much testorerone and yelling.
Post a Comment